from http://www.varsity.co.uk/reviews/3361
Union: Pornography Debate
During this debate Jessi Fischer, a writer on sexuality, proclaimed that one of the worst porn shows she has ever watched showed two women going to scratch out each other’s vaginas with their long, painted finger nails. Watching the first half of the Union debate was a similarly bad viewing experience: rather than concentrating on whether porn does a good public service, both sides seemed more interested in making catty attacks on the other side’s credentials. Thankfully the real porn star argued her case against the industry effectively, bringing the debate closer to its climatic finish.
Porn is "like a game," according to Anna Span, Britain’s first female porn director. According to Span, we should ignore the claims that porn provokes sex offenders or that the industry’s workers are riddled with STDs, because apparently such facts and statistics are incorrect and easily manipulated. She insists that there is no link between porn and rape, or between children, porn and paedophiles. Conversely, porn provides "one of the best ways to change perceptions of sexuality and to expand women’s rights". Span’s real anger, however, was not directed against the "moral entrepeneurs who target the porn industry," but towards Shelley Lubben, former porn actress and now anti-porn campaigner. Span attacked Lubben’s health statistics, undermined her degree and blamed her history of prostitution for her claims of cervical cancer, herpes and miscarriages. Span thrust her sharp catty claws into Lubben, presenting her as a woman who had merely joined the opposition to porn because it appeared to be more lucrative.
Span first brought the bitch into Thursday’s porn debate, but the cattiness had only just begun. Fischer told us that porn is good because it "sparks public debate," but I don’t think it was a debate that Fischer was after. When a young gentleman from the floor posed a point of information, she completely ignored his words and seductively flicked her hair, replying, "you and I could grab a camera right now and film whatever we want" – prompting males in the chamber to clap and laugh. This only seemed to prove the opposition’s point that porn is detrimental to our society because it stops men from thinking and keeps them masturbating.
The most forceful argument of the debate came from Dr Gail Dines, lecturer and feminist activist. She is often told that "what you need, Gail Dines, is a good fuck," but here is a woman who understands that "anti-porn doesn’t mean anti-sex." She gave a graphic, powerful description of the realities of porn websites like Gonzo, where "bitches have no choice but to take it all" and where women, according to Dines, become "fuck objects". She reminded us that porn is often humiliating, degrading and brutal, and to see the effects all we had to do was watch Lubben take to the floor. She was angry and inarticulate. She didn’t hide behind prepared rhetoric. She dug her heels into the ground and begged: "Please, please don’t believe the lie of pornography… I’ve been there, done that, more than any of you have." To look at her you can see that she is right: "there is nothing glamorous about porn". It leaves you broken.
The motion was carried, but this was not because of overwhelming support but because nearly a third of the chamber abstained. Perhaps they couldn’t deal with the reality of porn. In the emergency debate ‘This House Would Rather Be At Oxford Than St John’s’, white males brought the stereotypical Cambridge elitism to the chamber, with all its Chardonnay, Conservative Party members, May Balls, Boat Races and University Rankings. Maybe the motion was passed because the voters are too far removed to understand the real issues of porn, or maybe because porn has succeeded in deadening and dehumanising brains. Or maybe Lubben is right: only when anyone "has done as much gang bang as me" are they qualified to talk about porn.
***
What’s stunning about this article — aside from the hopeless bias and condescending tone — is that even THIS writer is forced to admit that Shelley Lubben is a “broken” “inarticulate” mess. I love the part where she writes that Lubben “didn’t hide behind prepared rhetoric.” Really? What then, is “I know — you don’t know, but I do. I’ve been there, done that, more than any of you have.” That’s not an argument — that’s bald rhetoric — empty rhetoric, yes, but rhetoric nonetheless.
The article’s author has it half right — what Lubben didn’t do is PREPARE for the debate, she only recited canned rhetoric that the pro-porn debaters were well-prepared to defeat. The transcript of Lubben’s rant reveals it to have been truly pitiful. The themes of her debate speech were 1) I know better than you, so trust me; 2) and I have a cache of evidence (which I will not present); and 3) I have been chosen by God. That was it.
I love the closer of this article: “only when anyone ‘has done as much gang bang as me’ are they qualified to talk about porn.” Really, now? I suppose this writer has never heard of critical thinking. One doesn’t have to be black to know what KKK means, or why what it does is wrong.
Also, get a look at Gail Dines’ face in the second photo, above!!! Priceless.
Can Shelley even be called a porn star? Didn’t she make like 15-17 scenes after years as a hooker and then blame all her health problems and ills on the few scenes that she did?
That assessment is correct, as demonstrated by words from Lubben’s own mouth. Episode 1 of my documentary (“The Devil And Shelley Lubben”) deals with her specious claims that she is CERTAIN that her medical problems derived from her time in porn.
She got pregnant from prostitution clients THREE TIMES during her SIX YEARS as a hooker prior to porn, yet claims she only had “protected sex as a prostitute,” and is therefore certain that the STDs she allegedly contracted must have been contracted on set.
Note, I wrote “allegedly” — she has never offered one shred of proof that she ever contracted herpes or HPV. Now she claims she no longer has herpes — an incurable disease — because G-d cured her of it. Not to mention the fact that, according to the CDC, 50% of sexually active adults will get HPV at some point in their lives. I don’t think they had even defined it as HPV back in the early 1990s. She wasn’t diagnosed with HPV (she says) until approx. 5 years after she left the porn business.
Quote me:
The problem isn’t porn. The problem is us!
Yes, Jeremy. Many people have problems. Many people have bad things happen to them. Some of those people end up in porn. Even abused people have to make a living somehow.
But it’s a lot easier to blame an already-demonized business like pornography, and to say all the words that fundamentalists, and every anti-sex, anti-porn nutcase wants to hear.
That’s a point made in a GREAT new article on Lubben out today, by Whack Magazine’s Miss Lagsalot on her conflictedexxistence blog, entitled “The Shelley Lubben Limited.” Here’s an excerpt:
“[H]er past is full of … sins that she’s going to have to either own up to… or spend her life running away from. It’s a shame. Because there’s no shame in admitting you regret things you’ve done; redemption lies just on the other side of forgiving yourself. But to forgive yourself, you have to admit to some degree, however small, of culpability. And it’s easier to keep running from your own judgment by flinging it outward at other people than it is to take a long, honest, loving look inward. And the scariest thing about that last sentence isn’t necessarily that Shelley is flinging her judgment around; it’s that, from what I’ve seen, she can’t look inside herself and love what she sees.
“She can be self-righteous. She can be angry. She can be the broken result of an industry that chewed her up and spat her out. She can tell crowds of strangers about the degrading things she was put through and the most intimate details of her experiences with Johns. But look inward and feel worthy of her own respect and love? I don’t think she can.”
you all need to go fuck yourself and quit hating!
You first, Maddy.
Hi Michael,
I have heard so much about you:-0 (00h la la) and am actually glad that you did your research. However, it is kinda blah but I did find some humor. I do say your quite the comedian and you definately did your homework. The reason why I say “fuck off” to everyone is because all this is kinda boring now. I mean the whole Pink Cross thing as you noticed I did and parted my way. And am happy to say I am happy but, you should definately let all this go and let Shelley be. What is the whole reason about this anyways? Why? But you look very intelligent why care about this? Because I definately don’t. Have a wonderful day!
Maddy, thank you for taking the time to comment more fully. I do appreciate it.
You ask why I “care about this” and what is this “about.” None of what I’m doing vis-a-vis Mrs. Lubben is strictly “about” Shelley — it’s about 1) the fact that she is (or is it “was”?) being trotted out by people with actual credentials and influence to support their arguments, 2) the fact that she is making charges of despicable activities and motivations about a bunch of people I know and care about, and 3) my view that her 501(c)(3) organization is not being properly administered, in that there are many many questions about, questions raised by, and problems with the organization’s tax filings. When an entity makes improper claims on a tax return, and particularly when that entity is classified as a non-profit, that entity is, in effect, stealing from every taxpayer.
I don’t know you personally, Maddy — I know OF you, of course — and I don’t hate you (or Shelley for that matter). I’m glad to hear you’re happy. I just want to take away Shelley’s ability to hurt the men and women of the adult industry with her venom. In my opinion, she’s a very sick woman who needs to get help. It would truly be wonderful if, at the end of all this, she actually could love herself and lose the need to endlessly project herself and her own experiences onto an entire group of people. I’ll repeat one of the quotations above which I honestly, and with no small measure of sadness, believe to be true:
“[T]here’s no shame in admitting you regret things you’ve done; redemption lies just on the other side of forgiving yourself. But to forgive yourself, you have to admit to some degree, however small, of culpability. And it’s easier to keep running from your own judgment by flinging it outward at other people than it is to take a long, honest, loving look inward. And the scariest thing about that last sentence isn’t necessarily that Shelley is flinging her judgment around; it’s that, from what I’ve seen, she can’t look inside herself and love what she sees.”
Regardless of her emotional state, Shelley has a right to free speech which I do not deny, and if she has rubes and White Power people who keep sending her money, then more power to her I suppose. A fool and his money were lucky to have ever gotten acquainted in the first place. But the fact that she does not repudiate or distance herself from the haters and virulent anti-semites who regularly step up and attack me in support of her mission “to destroy the Jewish-controlled porn industry” is something I find deeply disturbing. It will be addressed in one of the sections of the documentary.
I’m glad you mentioned the research that Lydia and I undertook for the documentary. We are extending the offer to Jan Meza, and to you, and to everyone else ever involved with Pink Cross to tell their side, and to characterize or defend Shelley’s actions and methods as they see fit. We want the most accurate AND thorough examination of Mrs. Lubben and her organization possible. If you’re willing to assist in that goal, you can reach me at: MW at thedevilandshelleylubben dot com.
MW
I care because I resent being accused of being mentally ill. From what I can see, the anti-porn people don’t want to help people who really want help as much as they want to punish the people who don’t want help and don’t think they need help. I think there’s a big difference between helping people and lobbying to criminalize the porn industry. Lately, Lubben’s claiming illegal activity among groups within he industry that aren’t doing anything illegal. To let someone this disturbed make false accusations and get away with it is irresponsible. She’s set herself up to assist in making policy in the state I live in, and I know she lies. I, personally, cannot in good conscience let her get away with the actual criminal activity I see her involved in because she stands to ruin people’s lives by tearing away at anything she doesn’t like. She acts like a child and it’s despicable.
That’s my two cents, anyway. 😀
I find it HIGHLY amusing that every time someone tries to go toe to toe with Whitacre, they do so with the most hilarious grammar and spelling I’ve ever seen. There’s so much irony there, it totally speaks for itself.
‘I’ve never made but one prayer to God, a short one: “Oh Lord, make my enemies ridiculous!” And God granted it!’ – Voltaire
Ms. Lubben’s claims of being a Prophet and immaculate-intervention to cure her diseases are ridiculous and deserved to be ridiculed. Especially considering her voice has the potential to affect another’s freedom of choice. Touting the Bible and conversations with God as the source of her missionary ‘obligation’ smacks of religious tyranny and incongruous with the tenants of free-will…
A better (though brief) overview of the Cambridge debate…
http://cambridgetab.co.uk/news/students-give-the-porn-supremacy
@Fartz – LOL and thank you.
@Voltaire – An excellent quote selection, which today I adopted as my Facebook status. On this, and the remainder of your comment, I could not agree more..
Cheers,
MW
@Michael Whiteacre – Thank you Michael, I appreciate that, I really do… It’s funny, I had randomly come across your interview video with Ms. Lubben on Youtube, then, as I started looking into her and her ‘minions’, I found this web site… After seeing such vibrant debate and the vastness of the topics, I decided to try my hand at posting…
An adult industry web-site (or any web-site for that matter) spurring such a myriad of thoughts and ideas is commendable. Excellent job Cindi, I believe it is, the mainstream media could learn a thing or two…
@Voltaire – In a free society, it’s all about free and open debate. I join you in applauding Cindi’s efforts to provide and maintain this forum. I’m not afraid of putting forth my arguments into the marketplace of ideas; only tyrants and charlatans are reluctant to do so. So, welcome!
At the end of the day, porn is not some world apart — it’s actually a microcosm of our society at large — but there remains a huge stigma surrounding it, largely because some people (like Mrs. Lubben, Prof. Gail Dines, Michael Weinstein of AIDS Healthcare Foundation, UCLA’s Paula Tavrow and Mark Roy McGrath, LA County Department of Health’s Dr. Peter Kerndt, et al) have a vested interest in perpetuating the worst stereotypes about the members of the adult community (while simultaneously claiming to be trying to help. It’s akin to a rhetorical Munchausen by Proxy). These people, as I have written here many times before, are parasites who profit off of porn while excoriating it.
In my own defense I’d like to stress that, while I may be no moral exemplar, I have never accepted a cent from the “porn lobby,” and that the Lubben/Pink Cross and AHF videos are strictly non-commercial endeavors for Lydia and myself.
I hope you’ll take the time to examine some of the other videos on my YouTube channel, as well as Julie Meadows/Lydia Lee’s (the interview/debate with Mrs. Lubben is merely raw, unedited footage) and also at the Lubben documentary’s official website. The latter also features links to relevant articles on various sites — including LukeIsBack, naturally. I would heartily recommend you peruse some of the other websites listed there. I’m so glad that my work eventually led you here to LIB. This Shelley Lubben project has likewise led me to many wonderful writers/commentators of whose existence I was not previously aware.
And, yes, those Lubbenite “minions” are something else, aren’t they? They actually refer to themselves in many forums (such as Facebook) as her “disciples.”
Shelley is totally that chick from the book/movie, “Servants Of Twilight”. I think that’s the name of it. The one about the female christian cult leader who is obsessed with killing the kid that she believes is the anti-christ.
@Fartz – “Grace Spivey” was the character’s name in Koontz’s book. Cross Spivey with Aimee Semple McPherson and you’re on to something!
I mentioned an excellent piece on Lubben by Miss Lagsalot, above, but there’s two more that are worth a look. One’s called “JUST GO HOME, SHELLEY, PLEASE,” on WhackMagazine’s website, and the other is from William Quincy belle’s blog, entitled, “Roxy aka Shelley Lubben vs. the (porn) world”. Here’s an excerpt from the latter, starting of with one of Lubben’s purported “Porn Facts”:
“’36 porn stars died that we know of from HIV, suicide, homicide and drugs between 2007 and 2010′? Hell, 82 people die each year by getting struck by lightning. For the three years Ms. Lubben mentions, 246 were zapped to death. By my calculation, my chances of living are 583% better by starring in a porn film than by playing a round of golf.”
And an excerpt from the former:
“it seems clear to me that she is exaggerating the degree to which she has ‘gotten over’ the issues that drove her to pornography in the first place. She is still working those issues out; where before she was projecting the image of the father she wished she had onto a California pimp, now she’s projecting the image of herself, the girl she wants to save, onto every woman in the industry. The fact that she has insisted on playing this out in as public a fashion as possible convinces me that Shelley Lubben is a long way away from not needing to be externally validated in order to feel ok about herself.”