From Free Speech Coalition thttp://fscblogger.wordpress.com/
This is a layperson’s (my) opinion of how free speech is supposed to work: American citizens are allowed to express themselves using various protected forms of speech – speech that doesn’t incite violence or bodily harm (an example of illegal speech being, if someone were to falsely call out “Fire!” in a crowded theater at the risk of causing a stampede). In using protected speech, citizens are allowed to express their opinion, even if it appears to the majority to be repellent, obnoxious, disgusting or just plain wrong.
Other citizens, at that point, have the right to voice their opinion to the original speaker in open debate and tell them that they are repellent, obnoxious, disgusting or just plain stupid. As adults, we are encouraged by the Constitution to engage in public debate and even heated arguments – short of physical violence, resulting from that debate. And, in the end, the majority can decide which opinion they agree or disagree with. Consequently, if someone (like Ms. Palin) makes enough statements that go against broader opinion, then the public could choose to rightfully ignore her or even call her out as a crackpot.
Is Palin guilty of misguided public statements and a bloodthirsty pursuit of furthering her own political agenda? Should she have used better judgement? Maybe so. That’s for each individual to decide. That’s how free speech and democracy are supposed to work.
Because of the extremely tragic incident in Arizona where six lives were lost and several people wounded, including Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, a new uproar for limiting speech is being argued in the media. Parties are pointing fingers and several political pundits calling for “inflammatory speech and symbols” to be culled out of the public discourse.
Trouble is, as with “obscenity” – how do you clearly define what is “inflammatory?” And who’s in charge of defining it?
As Jeffrey Miron said in an article posted on CNN.com, there’s no guarantee that free speech will or needs to be “civil,” but once you allow the government (or other entities) to start restricting speech, you’ve started a slow slide down a slippery slope.
“The argument for free speech holds simply that the harms from government restrictions on speech are worse than the harms from free speech itself. If government can determine what constitutes acceptable speech, it will use that power to restrict speech in inappropriate ways,” Miron said.
And while there has been an outpouring of sympathy for the victims and their families, there is no proof that’s been brought to light (yet) that accused shooter Jared Loughner was influenced by Palin’s press campaign featuring a “cross-hair map” targeting Democratic congressional seats, including Gabrielle Giffords’. Even if he was a sworn acolyte of the Church of the Mama Grizzly, it’s not like Palin went down to the gun shop and bought the ammo for him.
For all we know, Lougner may have been hearing voices or reacting to any number of perceived messages from media or elsewhere. The sad fact of the matter is that Loehner appears to be mentally unstable – and there will always be mentally unstable individuals that will act out violently. Restricting speech isn’t going to change that, the same way that outlawing adult material wouldn’t stop rapists or sex offenders from acting on their compulsions.
At the end of the day, you’ve got crazed gunman Loughner, muttering on a YouTube video about his “genocide school” and how “they are controlling the grammar.” You’ve got Palin spitting out sound bytes like “Don’t retreat – reload!” and “blood libel.” Censorship won’t eliminate the problems of mental illness or hate speech, but may actually make it harder to detect – much less find resolutions for these issues. Take away each individual’s right to analyze what is being said so that they can make a well-informed choice opens the door for thought control, misinformation, agenda-pushing and propaganda.
If we allow speech to be limited because of the chance that there may be unstable individuals that will maim or kill, isn’t that basically the same as giving into terrorism? Why should sane, intelligent people have to watch what they say, in order not to ignite some lunatic’s fuse? And if others speak of lunacy, using rhetoric that the majority does not accept, then why should sane, intelligent people be restricted from arguing against that speech?
In the Declaration of Independence, Thomas Jefferson wrote the words, “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness. That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed…”
All men are created equal – for me, that presumes that all men are capable of deciding for themselves what is appropriate and inappropriate, what they agree with or don’t agree with. Once you allow someone else to decide what’s correct for you to say (or hear or see or think), you lose another little bit of your right to make that decision for yourself – you lose a little bit of your freedom.
We hold these truths to be self-evident… -jc
Yep. Perfectly stated, FSC!
HEAR HEAR ! It just seems to me that the left doesn’t want a legitimate debate, no matter what happens or what the incident is, the FIRST thing coming from the left is just stop talking about it ! “the right is evil and wrong and should be silenced “. The right is somewhat guilty of this too, but being that the left has soooo many more voices in the media , they are much louder ( and nastier ).
Would someone from the left please tell me just what is so threatning about Palin , hold the hysterics, just gimme some SPECIFIC points that you totally disagree with her on. No name calling , no ranting , just issues.
thanks
I completely agree, Travis. The most fucked up part of this tragedy was how bad the left WANTED this to be a “crazy right winger”. The excitement in the air was palpable when it was learned it was a young, white guy that shot everyone.
Even before some of the victims had taken their last breaths, the left was already pointing fingers. Seriously, that’s messed up. Now we know the guy was simply batshit crazy, but that hasn’t stopped the dialogue of censorship.
Also, what is the deal with the left’s obsession with Sarah Palin anyway? The only people who seem to care about what Sarah Palin does are the people who hate her so much. Sarah Palin fans are few and far between, but her detractors seem to hang on every word she says. It’s pathetic.
Also, I would love some people on the left to actually argue specific issues. It never happens. They resort to name calling or invoking the name George Bush as if everyone who isn’t a party-line democrat just LOVES George Bush. I guess that is your only defense when you don’t know shit about politics.
Sarah Palin is an idiot, and idiots can always be useful… I am becoming more convinced that the killer was a manchurian candidate psy-op
agent provocateur in order to inflame public opinion and set up extreme government laws- censoring and imprisoning people for free-speech and removing our right to bear arms against a tyrannical government. Advanced warnings of this Lo(ugh)ner nut are irrefutable. He had been making threats, Giffords’ office was vandalised last year, and Lougner was subscribed to Lougner’s youtube, yet there was no protection, in particular against Loughner himself (who they should’ve been looking out for/guarded against specifically) during this public gathering.
Also killed in the shooting was Judge John Roll, chief judge of the U.S. District Court of Arizona. Judge Roll and his wife were placed under US Marshals Service protection two years ago due to death threats he was receiving in regard to a multi-million dollar ruling he made in a civil rights lawsuit brought by illegal immigrants against a state rancher.
… There’s also the healthcare reform bill connection. Here’s a link with a video of Giffords addressing, in her words, the “incredibly heated” activities threats over healthcare and “outbursts of violence” and “Sarah Palin’s targeted list”. “When people do that there are consequences”… “They’ve never seen anything like this”, regarding Palin’s subliminations of violence in the name of politics.
http://www.thewashingtonnote.com/archives/2011/01/palins_gun_targ/
sorry, had a george bush moment: meant to say sublimations.
Sublimation means the transformation of unwanted impulses into something less harmful. Sarah Palin is too stupid to be in government without some serious guidance and/or control. Whoever was behind the target thing is sick and that sublimation is now blamed as a trigger of a mental case’s actions.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this was planned along with the “lone nut” hit to be used as a red herring, as well as an excuse to crack down, as I’ve mentioned, on free speech and other human rights, etc. After they’ve already created quaranteened “free speech” zones during political events which the mainstream media usually keeps far, far away from.
Its always a mental case who is the convenient impetus of pre-laid gov’t objectives. The U.S. tried to deport John Lennon, failed, then right after, a “lone nut” conveniently offs him. The Nazis invaded Poland because of mentally ill Polish patsy blamed for the Reichstag fire they started themselves, etc…
“After all, they’ve already created quarantined ‘free speech zones'” is what I meant to say, whoops!
I like the way that retarded cunt always plays the victim when people criticize her and how her simpleton supporters rush to defend their darling hair brained harlot of Alaska.
I like the way that retarded cunt always plays the victim when people criticize her and how her simpleton supporters rush to defend their darling hair brained harlot of Alaska.
chitownie, i knew you couldn’t respond without spewing hate but you only serve to illustrate my point far better than i could. you are a fine example of the left, keep up the good work.
oh and jeremy, seriously dude , do you see conspiracies everywhere ? I mean sure maybe some , but everywhere ?
No not at all, Travis, but in a lot of places.
Conspiracy theories I don’t buy:
1. 9/11 -the official one that is, that hijackers caused a military stand-down and WTC 1, 2 & 7 to be brought down. Also, the fireproof passport of an alleged hijacker being discovered on top of the rubbel. Uh-huh. I also don’t believe that the WTC wasn’t hit by airplanes and that the images were holograms. This, I believe, was introduced by an operative to make the truth movement look ridiculous.
2. That O.J. was framed.
3. That the Jewish Holocaust never happened. I do question the numbers, as some books do, as 6 million is a lot to gas during a world war.
4. That some of my favorite rock groups from the 60s and 70s are conspiring to negatively influence society through their music and lyrics. However regarding Gangsta Rap, that’s another issue.
5. That our leaders are reptilians, only because I have not been provided with any substantive evidence.
6. That America invaded and bombed Iraq and Afghanistan to promote freedom and democracy.
7. That all men are conspiring against women.
8. I don’t believe in the Jesus Christ bloodline conspiracy. There is not even any contemporary record of Jesus’ existence. I do believe the bible itself, however, has lots of historical accuracies as well as mistranslations. The bible itself looks to be a re-translation of a solar cult. Son of God = Sun of God; his birth and death correlating with equinoxes and seasonal changes, etc.
I’m sure I can think of a few more, Travis. But as I’ve said, conspiracy exists everywhere. Most do not expand their imagination to see the big picture and are not cognizant of who and what they are conspiring (going along to get along) with.
It’s funny how you right wing talibani tea baggers believe the absolute rubbish that she spews. At least smart conservatives (George Will, Steve Forbes, et al) know what she is and publicly call her a dingbat.
Her reaction to the criticism was as predeictable as it was typical: immediately play the victim and feign indignation.
No one is censoring shit except for Palin’s supporters. Legitimate questions need to be asked about her judgement, repeated unfortunate word and visual choices, and thought process.
That dingbat mongoloid even had her spokeswoman claim a day after the shooting that her map with the sights was supposed to connotate a surveryor’s sight and not a gun’s.
I guess she figures/knows that her own followers are dumbassed idiots just as much as I do.
Jeremy, you are 1oo% right that the truth movement has been inundated with operatives trying to obfuscate the facts since day one.
Thanks Chitownie, regarding your last point to me. I’m curious to read any and all specific points you have on that one, in case I missed any.
I was at the Alex Jones L.A. 9/11 Truth symposium several years ago (with Charlie Sheen) and this dufus documentary maker gets up and tells us for several minutes how the towers were not really hit by planes. What we saw were holograms! I went up to him during a break with a couple of simple questions and he tells me all the answers on his site and then quickly walked away pretending he needed to desperately talk to someone else right away.
I’m also curious. Was Sarah Palin brought on board because Conservatives like idiots (ie: George Bush)? Oh yeah, it was a stupid scheme to bring a woman on board to show they’re “compassionate”. The O.J. Prosecution brought on Chris Darden to counterbalance blacks’ pro-O.J. sympathies but he was an idiot, too. It just goes to show how smart they think Conservatives are.
I don’t even pay attention to anything she says but whenever I hear or read something I go “Wheeewww!”. I feel like my head is imploding.
ah….neither of you 2 conspiracy guys has addressed my question , all you can say is that she is stupid,dumb, idiot. If thats the case why are yall so threatened by her hmmmmm ? Surely intellectual giants like chitownie have nothing to fear.
I’m sorry Travis, I must have missed your question. I do not feel threatened by her, although stupidity can be dangerous (as well as useful).
there are tons ( all ) of stupid politicians , so it can’t be just that, what are her positions on issues that you vehemetly disagree with ? Look i am not exactly the leader of her fan club but the HATRED of her has me curious as to why.
Sarah “The Disasta from Alaska” Palin and George W. Bush: Intellectually deficient comedians:
On November 24, 2010 when talking with Televangelist Glen Beck on his propaganda radio program, Palin actually told him that “We need to stand with our North Korean allies.”
She would’ve been the only V.P. to have never met a foreign head of state prior to gaining office. However, she claimed her foreign policy experience is solid based on the fact that Russia is within eyeshot of Alaska.
Also, in a televised interview, she didn’t even know what the Bush Doctrine (“pre-emptive strike”) was.
Yeah, I guess you can say this level of ignorance is threatening, Travis.
I never said I hated her, but I’d hate to have her in high office. I’m not celebrating Obama, either, though…
As someone who was born in the ’50s, and grew up in the ’60s and ’70s, and first voted, for Carter during the ’76 campaign; I have seen the American political decline firsthand. Since Eisenhower’s admonition in 1961, on the eve of his exiting the presidency, that, as Americans, “we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex,” our supposed “equitable” and “just” system of government has headed straight into the crapper (where it was both before and after Ike, to be fair). Look no further than the treasonous subversions of Nixon, or the Bush dynasty for further proof. To think that ANY American president has the power or the will to truly effect change in this country is the providence of fools. NOTHING has changed significantly in this country — politically, militarily, fiscally, or otherwise — in my lifetime…. the same agenda prevails. There will be NO CHANGE in your future, either! Wake the FUCK UP! Does almost half a century of lies, manipulation, treason, and subversion of YOUR beloved Constitution not send an undeniable message?! Where do you see ANY “change” or “hope?” Obama? Palin? McCain? Some other lackey team? Yup, the “best and the brightest” get sent out to play… and you wave your little red-white-and-blue flag and get all fizzy about restoring the American Dream. Let the idiot speak.
The solution? Withdraw completely from the current world system. Stop paying taxes and cut off all support to the parasite Mother. Live independently. Grow your own food (or support farmers’ markets and small, indy producers), and get ready for the really big collapse, and I mean on a global scale. Don’t believe it’s on the way?… Well, see you on the road to hell. I’ll be the one well-prepared, with ample supplies and ammunition. Don’t ask me for a handout.
That sounds very Twenty-Twelvish, Third Axis. I’ve been reading about Hollow Earth. All we have to do is dig 400 miles down and there’s an advanced civilization and veritable paradise (not Hades), supposedly, unless we can enter at electromagnetic openings at the north or south poles (which are guarded by the military). We have less than 32 months so let’s start digging. Or maybe the Pleidians underground will rescue us from the evil illiminazis running and ruining the outer world.
@Thirdaxis,
Yousay nothing has changed plitically, militarily,fiscally….
What about the fall of the soviet union,the collapse of communism, the rise of muslim fundamentalists in the middle east, and the change to the Euro.
Some might argue that there has been MORE economic, military and fiscal change in our lifetimes than ever before in history.
I’d prefer if nothing had changed in regards to some things:
Capitalists brought down the Soviet Union and Communism there, and then finished the job by substituting it with Capitalism. The funding of Fundamentalists has origins which the average t.v. watcher wouldn’t believe… sort of like the Bush Family funding Hitler. Stranger than fiction. The Euro is the N.W.O., yo!
The more things change the more they stay the same. Also, the only constant is change, and can you spare any change?
In a way it’s all been the same, same players, same game… progressively tightening its grip and spewing evermore shit, until it all hits!
We need a good long thread now, its been a few weeks. We more Colonel and even BDD.
Fuck BDD, the Colonel FTW….
Agreed, Joe. There has been significant global change in the last several decades; however, here in the good ol’ USA, it’s the same shit warmed over. We can’t even fix the fucking potholes. The American agenda remains the same, decade after decade. If anybody believes that one political party, or president, is any different than the next, then they’ve learned nothing from history. Perhaps that will make them feel better when filling out those corrupt tax forms, knowing that their labor will line the pockets of the unworthy.
Jeremy, 2012 can’t get here soon enough. Bring on The Singularity!
“If anybody believes that one political party, or president, is any different than the next, then they’ve learned nothing from history.”
I can’t agree with this statement nor disagree, because when Clinton was in office my 401k was BOOMING and I highly doubt it was him or his croonies i should thank…but that era did my account just fine.
Clinton was a drug runner, as was Bush, but Bush stole the election (Greg Palast and other journalists proving this were ignored by the compliant media) and allowed his buddies to loot the nation while we bombed other countries and declared war on the constitution. Bush broke his oath of office to defend the Constitution of the United States of America. He should be tried for Treason.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8681225708920427234#