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Brooke Ashley aka Ann Marie writes me I am not in any way involved with the Pink Cross any more.
I asked why?
Well when she requires an entourage to enter the convention, and I was told by Pink Cross if I were to smoke medical marijuana I would have to take off the Pink Cross shirt if I wanted to reenter. I have had hiv for 13 years, been on chemo twice, and no one will have the priviledge of taking away my medical marijuana. I have been throwing up for two years every day and been on liver chemo twice. I don’t feel I have to justify this. And how do I feel about porn personally? Like the workers or performers should be made safe. The testimony is real, so is the hiv. I just am not mad at the industry, nor do I want to "take down pornography". Coming to the AVN convention, I realized that there are a lot of people I still care deeply for, even though I am no longer in the industry. Marriage for me, was my step out of the business and my start to a family oriented lifestyle which I value immensely.
love, Ann Marie
***********
Ann Marie aka Brooke’s testimony is now gone from the Pink Cross site, it says page not found. I have some of the story posted on LIB tho. Look here https://www.lukeisback.com/?p=14397
Shelley Of course I want to hear your side of things
Good for you for taking a stand, Ann Marie. I’m sorry to hear about your health and hope you are taking care of yourself.
I would like to know how sick Brooke Ashley was before taking AIDS meds, compared to how sick she’s repeatedly been since.
It should be noted that God created Pot, but a more politically powerful corporate god created AIDS meds. The former is relatively harmless, the latter is definitely deadly.
Given the fact that there are so many causes of false positives in all HIV tests, that there’s no gold standard and how the UK completely rejects the so-called “confirmatory”, as the U.S. calls it, Western blot test, its really sad she buys this death diagnosis and the deadly medicine which makes acquired immune deficiency a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Good for you, Ann Marie.
And speaking of Shelley, here is teaser number two for “The Devil and Shelley Lubben” entitled, “The Book of Shelley.”
I would describe it, but since it’s all Shelley in her own words, I’ll leave it to her.
I am still reeling from this drastic action that Ann took against The Pink Cross Foundation and Shelley Lubben. Everything that Shelley wrote in her post is the truth. In our time with Ann, we loved her and took care of her. She was so kind and loved us back. We ALL loved her but NO ONE as much as Shelley. So many people in the porn industry have no idea what we do at Pink Cross or what kinds of sacrifices our team members have made to make ourselves available to help people that want help. Shelley has voluntarily exchanged her perfect, beautiful life with her family…to go back in and rescue hurting people. People who rarely thank her and more often betray her. No one cares about the people in the industry like she does. NO ONE. We should all agree on that.It may be hard to believe but there are actually some people who are ‘crazy’ enough to leave their own families and friends and move across the country to support Shelley and The Pink Cross foundation. I know. I did it. I don’t think people realize the sacrifice behind what we do. It’s not a joke to us. It’s not something we do ‘part time’. It’s 24/7 for us. We are serious about what we do. We wake up every morning to see if there is anyone we can help. Does anyone else do this?? Our team has watched Shelley LOVE beyond human limits and we have learned from her. And it is why we do what we do. I am deeply saddened that Ann was somehow offended. We would have never told her she couldn’t smoke. This is a ridiculous accusation. We truly love her, but I won’t stand by and have her say these negative things about Shelley. They are simply not true. Not in the least.
Wow, what Ann’s stated here shows a lot of personal development – I wish this statement was longer and more in depth.
If you read this Ann, maybe you could submit another piece to this blog at some point of your experiences and thoughts.
I think it’s good that she acknowledges that though she’s not “in the industry” anymore she’s realized that though she’s been exposed to some severely negative outcomes, “taking down porn” isn’t the answer for a realistic “goal”.
I hope someone takes some video of the upcoming Cambridge Univ. debate Shelley will be involved in – the panel will debate the motion “This house believes that pornography does a good public service.”
That is bs. April Garris was put in charge and told me this, I mean how much cologne did everyone think I should wear to cover this up and why cover up my medical marijuana even with god? Why can’t I be honest about who I am? I am not vending cannibus. but people on her own team or staff when questioned about their marijuana use or charges denied that it ever happened all together. Why because he is a minister? Lets put it all out in the open if we are going to put it out in the open.
and I think you know what and who I am speaking about. honestly…lets be honest, the truth sets you free right shelley lubben. or was that a lie.
Dear Ann;
Again I am so sorry you were hurt by all of this. You know very well that I never told you that you couldn’t smoke. I just said to be discreet, and maybe go freshen up afterwards. The truth is, your medical marijuana card is valid in California, not in Nevada. You were in a completely different state and I have no idea what the laws are there. I only asked you for your own protection. You seemed fine with it when you came back.
Only now am I learning how angry you were about it. Again, I am sorry of I hurt you. I would never judge a sick person for smoking medical marijuana.
That is all I am going to say on the matter. Again, I am so sorry that you were hurt.
I’m just shocked about all of this and its pretty obvious how much time Shelley and The Pink Cross made for you her! (Ann Marie) All Shelley does is LOVE and I’m so tired of people just talking and bashing her no one even knows Shelley!!!All Shelley does is sacrifice her life and her family for men and women are suffering in the industry I know because I have seen and have gotten to know Shelley! I WAS in the porn industry and am HAPPY to say the Pink Cross and Shelley has helped me and is still standing STRONG by my side 100 percent. All I can say about this that this is a LIE and Not the Truth!And I have something to say to you Ann that I personally met you and know how hurt you were because you told me how porn hurt you. I truly am sorry for you about all of this. I know that it takes time to heal and that your confused right now. But know that Shelley, The Pink Cross and I love you sister and am praying for you…..Maddy
Germy steal is a fucking scumbag. that is all…
Of course, @maddy1, that’s it, Ann Marie’s just “confused right now.” “This is a LIE and Not the Truth!” Right. How disgusting and insulting. If only she saw the world your way then she’d be all right. Shelley’s truth is the only truth.
Maddy, ever read Robert Jay Lifton’s Eight Point Model of Thought Reform?
1. ENVIRONMENT CONTROL. Limitation of many/all forms of communication with those outside the group. Books, magazines, letters and visits with friends and family are taboo. “Come out and be separate!”
2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION. The potential convert to the group becomes convinced of the higher purpose and special calling of the group through a profound encounter / experience, for example, through an alleged miracle or prophetic word of those in the group.
3. DEMAND FOR PURITY. An explicit goal of the group is to bring about some kind of change, whether it be on a global, social, or personal level. “Perfection is possible if one stays with the group and is committed.”
4. CULT OF CONFESSION. The unhealthy practice of self disclosure to members in the group. Often in the context of a public gathering in the group, admitting past sins and imperfections, even doubts about the group and critical thoughts about the integrity of the leaders.
5. SACRED SCIENCE. The group’s perspective is absolutely true and completely adequate to explain EVERYTHING. The doctrine is not subject to amendments or question. ABSOLUTE conformity to the doctrine is required.
6. LOADED LANGUAGE. A new vocabulary emerges within the context of the group. Group members “think” within the very abstract and narrow parameters of the group’s doctrine. The terminology sufficiently stops members from thinking critically by reinforcing a “black and white” mentality. Loaded terms and clichés prejudice thinking.
7. DOCTRINE OVER PERSON. Pre-group experience and group experience are narrowly and decisively interpreted through the absolute doctrine, even when experience contradicts the doctrine.
8. DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE. Salvation is possible only in the group. Those who leave the group are doomed.
Start praying for Shelley, Maddy — or better yet, start praying for yourself.
“Max Softcore” says”
“Oh and nothing happens after we die…”
How would you know, stupid?
And I’m a “scumbag” says you, because you don’t like me pointing out that the facts which show you’re brainwashed, which is pretty easy to do since you’re fuckin’ stupid.
I’m curious, Softcore, do you think JFK was killed by Oswald and his “magic bullet”? After all, that still is the official story.
Good American sap you are…
Can somebody please point out an example of one “man” Shelley-the prophet-Lubben has “helped” out of the industry? Just one, okay? If not, please stop saying that “she’s helped men and women”. Okay? Just saying. Come to think of it, why haven’t you reached out to any men, Shelley? God knows how much you dislike me personally for asking you to show a little compassion when dealing with death within the adult industry instead of vilifying people, but the other guys haven’t questioned your god-like powers at all! Pink Cross is all about pussy, right? That’s why you call it “pink”, right? Who would donate money to your cause if it was going to a man, right? You are sooooo transparent!
and april garris, if I have a medical marijuana card why would I not know the laws. did you really have to escort me and my husband everywhere we went, even to the bathroom. or was that rogers idea? and you were worried about your reputation not about how sick i was the first day. shelley just gets to enter the final days and who cares at my expense of being sick and staying there several hours. no more of this, you guys make me sick literally..
Again, I am sorry you were hurt Ann, but I’m not going to apologize for asking you to be discreet and maybe freshen up.
Again, I had no idea you were so angry about this. I wish you had said something to me after the fact. We surely could have resolved this. This is between you and I, though. I was the one who asked you. Shelley wasn’t even around, and had nothing to do with it.
Look how they rush out to throw themselves on the sword for their silicon savior. It’s touching.
And, naturally, they step up to blame Ann Marie as well — she was INDISCREET and then she broodingly kept her anger inside. Ann is “CONFUSED” now and telling “a LIE.” What Ann Marie has done was “drastic” and has left people who “love” her “reeling.”
In their mind (singular tense), IF ONLY Ann had acted differently, all of this unpleasantness could have been avoided. Sick.
We even get the line of BS straight out of the Gospel of Shelley Lubben that “Shelley has voluntarily exchanged her perfect, beautiful life with her family…to go back in and rescue hurting people.” Exchanged her perfect life? THIS is her dream! She HAD to find a way back into the limelight. Every speech she gives is about herself. Even her book — she calls it an autobiography. Not a handbook, not an expose — an autobiography. It’s The Book of Shelley. The trials and tribulations of the crazy-eyed saint. Jesus Christ didn’t even talk about himself that much, and He certainly would have had a right to — He talked about His Father’s work.
No one remembers Shelley as a porn “star” of a handful of movies from 1993-94 (no researcher has ever documented more than 17) — but today, no one can deny her status as a has-been ex-porn star. At age 42, she’s finally living the porn star dream — she gets to dress like one, do her make-up like one, hang out with them, she goes to all the conventions, has her picture taken with them. And she’s found a way to market rape and disease and perverted sex for Christian consumption. She’s God’s own porn star.
Shelley Lubben has never been a responsible independent woman in her life. Name one other job she ever held supporting herself, other than being a whore. She went from living at home through high school to being a hooker and being a madam (victimizing other women) to getting married to a man who took care of her. He joined the Army and she got Army heath care. Her “eight years of long hard recovery” — her “horrible recovery” as she calls it — entailed going to church. Church! The Champions Centre: a church and ministry training facility in Tacoma, WA, where Shelley learned how to work a crowd of Christians and get them to pass the plate. Not NA, not AA (Shelley says that the 12 steps were too hard; she couldn’t get past step 2), not counseling — no, bible study. And she still drank through four or five years of that!
And now, she hangs out with that lunatic Judith Reisman (the former writer of songs for Captain Kangaroo who, despite only having a degree in Communications, has posited the “Eroto-toxin” theory). These elusive Eroto-toxins — which, naturally have never been found — are supposedly produced by the porn viewer’s own brain, are as powerful as crack cocaine, and fill the somata-sensory cortexes of porn watchers. She also believes that “Idealistic ‘gay youth’ groups are being formed and staffed in classrooms nationwide by recruiters too similar to those who formed the original ‘Hitler youth.'”
Sheep, reconsider your shepherd!
Ok, everyone on this board is going to be angry and outraged by my comments but here are my two cents:
Shelly, you are making your organization all about you and you are misleading girls involved in the adult industry.
It’s all about about Shelly Lubben AND the Pink Cross and not about the organization itself. You should be upfront with them and tell them that you are a Christ-based organization with Christian objectives. Right now you are straddling two ponds–a religious one and a secular one–and as a result you are manipulating very vulnerable girls with mental health issues. Yeah, I’m not that religious, but even Jesus says: “I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm—neither hot nor cold—I am about to spit you out of my mouth.” Rev 3:15-16.
You need to be upfront with girls about your primary objective–that you wish to lead girls to Christ and ultimately dismantle pornography. Instead of saying “I love you all” say “God, Jesus, loves you all”–then you would be blameless in your cause. Furthermore, you shouldn’t have tried to emotionally blackmail Anna Marie on this site. You should have just shut your mouth and stayed quiet.
As for Anna Marie, she is also in the wrong. She knew what she was doing when she hooked up with the Pink Cross and told them her story. She got close enough to the Pink Cross to take pictures with them and now she’s dumping those people like worthless pieces of trash. Everybody has disagreements and maybe even dislikes the Pink Cross but when you get get close to a people–even people you discover to be toxic–you need to end relations with them as peacefully as possible before trying to publicly condemn them.
Anna knew what she was getting into. Why would she be going to AEE with them if she didn’t have any opposition to porn whatsoever? And for the record, people cannot smoke medical marijuana in Nevada without a Nevada medical cannabis card–a California card is no good. She probably went to the convention, saw girls like she used to be–attractive young girls getting attention and excited about being and porn–and decided she wanted to go back to “the good ol’ days”.
But the truth is, even if she dumps Shelly there is no returning to the old days of her adult career. And where were her porn “friends” when she was going through chemo? For Anna Marie, the adult industry is DIRECTLY responsible for her problems. Producers and AIM fought a long battle with her in court and now everybody wants to comfort her now that she’s going against Shelly Lubben?
“The Devil in Shelly Lubben” documentary will be bullshit, because the adult industry deserves someone like Shelly Lubben for every time an 18 year old gets chlamydia or gonorrhea of the throat after an anal gangbang and has to deal with that with virtually no support. I don’t agree with Shelly but where is the comfort for those girls? Where are the industry precautions to make sure girls aren’t abusing hard drugs? Where is the mental health support?
A pornstar recently tried to kill herself and for two days there weren’t any comments on LIB. Will Ryder came to rescue but what about things going forward? I’m not for banning porn but things have to change.
I know people will be screaming at me with moral indignation but I hope people in porn would take serious steps to self-regulate so that a case like Brooke Ashley’s never happens again.
Origin, fuck off.
Ok, I might be an asshole but I’m not as big an asshole as many people on here. Producers need to genuinely care about adult performers and there needs to be an organization that truly seeks to help them.
And 18 is too young to be doing porn.
It’s funny you say that origen, because usually the average age a girl has had sex is under 18, sometimes much lower, according to that often asked pre-porn scene question asked of “When did you first lose your virginity?”.
If you’re old enough to join the military and die for your country at age 18, then you should also be old enough to fuck on camera. Or maybe to you death is more palatable than sexual intercourse for America’s youth?
Origen is on to something here – he was harsh (Brooke, I’m really sorry that you’ve dealt with Lubben)but on point.
Here’s what is seems people aren’t noticing.
Lubben is all about Naming Names – not just of people she has a personal vendetta against, but also the REAL names of ex pornstars. On occasions she’s outright asked me here why I still call myself “Monica” rather than my real name.
Now has anyone noticed who ELSE and WHERE ELSE real names of pornstars are being posted? the derekandrewhay forum and the new pornwikileaks site. Yes Donkey is behind those sites but who ELSE do you think is?
Lubben – WHY is it that you only go by your married name and a derivative of your birth first name. WHAT IS YOUR REAL NAME? WHY don’t you USE IT? WHY are you hiding behind your husband and his family’s name?
Also if God has helped you so much WHY is it that you NEVER talk about your parents in your life now. Last time I checked God makes FAMILY a TOP priority. WHERE ARE THEY and WHY aren’t they right on stage behind you supporting you?
My parents still back me no matter why even though the derekandrewhay forum has put their safety and privacy along with my sister’s at risk. Something is very wrong with Lubben’s whole being if her parents aren’t anywhere to be found (maybe it’s because she still blames them and everyone else for her life rather than taking PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR HER CHOICES).
The Pink Cross is not about helping anyone except for Lubben herself and it’s sick. Wanna help a pornstar? Then help her get to know herself, help her take responsibility for her positive and negative actions and choices and then help her figure out what she really wants to do in life – whether it be porn or something else.
Repeatedly stating “the last thing I want to talk about is porn” when ALL you talk about is your porn career from over a DECADE ago doesn’t help anyone.
And one more thing. Brook Ashley brought up an EXCELLENT point in regards to her current mindset.
Yes porn didn’t work out for her – just as it didn’t work out for Lubben. Hell, certain elements in regards to the current state of porn (especially being what happened with me in regards to that damn derekandrewhay forum and my and my family’s privacy being compromised) didn’t work out for me BUT unlike Lubben – both Brook and I have realized that we’re NOT AGAINST PORN.
Porn is NOT a big bad demon. It’s a group of individuals making a PRODUCT. LOTS OF DIFFERENT TYPES of individuals who all think independently and have different goals, agendas, businesses etc.
Why in the world would it EVER make sense to lump all people in the porn industry together as having a unified mindset that must be DESTROYED. GET REAL.
I really think that Lubben will get a wide awakening at this Cambridge debate she’s scheduled to attend on Feb 17th because the Europeans aren’t going to buy one thing she says.
I have been a fan of Shelley for a long time and I have seen the pics of Ann Marie at Shelley`s home. When I see how Ann Marie is acting here, I think it is good that she is out of Pink Cross because they don`t need her. She is coming across as nasty and a drama queen. Telling people to fuck off because they are saying something you didn`t like?? You put yourself out there. You let Shelley have your story on her site. You made a video with her, talking about your diseases and you said that the people in porn are trapped in a business that doesn`t care about them. Now you are coming across as angry, bitter and nasty and I think you need to get saved for real.
As far as Shelley is concerned, I am worried about her. At first I thought it was wonderful that she has been lifted out of so much. But after watching her latest videos (the testimony on YouTube), I couldn`t even make sense of half of it. She thinks she is a comedian now. She is so full of herself. She thinks she is a prophet. She is hearing voices. I think many of her fans are starting to worry if she has really recovered or if she is unstable emotionally.
Don’t get me wrong, Jeremy, I don’t think soldiers under the age of 21 should be involved in combat.
Dude, you are a porn performer. You’ve also seen your fair share of gangbangs and bukkakes. I just don’t think porn sex is the same as private sex. Anal on set with John Strong or a longcocksman like Lex Steele can leave a young girl in serious pain for days. Give girls some time to get comfortable with their bodies.
And we are not just talking about sex with porn–we are talking about having sex for money. The financial incentive makes it easy for young girls to get taken advantage of by suitcase pimps. Suitcase pimps are a problem at any age but by 21 the brain has grown more mature and many girls are strong enough push them away.
And statistically speaking, most of the performers who last 5 years or more in the biz entered when they were over 21.
Age don’t mean shit, origen. Being old doesn’t make you smart. Being young doesn’t make you stupid. Overall, we’re all stupid, anyway, by design, whether we’re 18, 21 or 45; we’re collectively brainwashed in ways and in many ways you can say we are born wise and get dumber as we get older. The educational system is essentially about “programming”; memorizing; getting the grade so you can get the job; following the scripture so you can get a nice kush job somewhere. Meanwhile this whole world is getting evermore corrupt and porn at any age is innocent compared to what goes on in D.C. I think before we address the subject of minimum age requirements in porn, we should definitely address the subject of military service and the recruiting officers who present their one-sided sales-pitch to ignorant students. Before anyone makes any kind of important decision in their life they should look at more than one, opposing view point. They should hear from homeless vets, hear the stories of survivers of soldiers who committed suicide or those who’s lives have been ruined by various diseases the government refuses to acknowledge they have (like
“Gulf War syndrome” aka radioactive exposure). Likewise and ideally, a young girl who is thinking about getting into porn should hear all sides, good and bad, and then decide.
Dude, I shouldn’t have to argue this issue with you. You seen so many of these teenagers. A lot of them must of been fucked up. Wouldn’t you say its the teenagers who are more likely to be emotionally, mentally unstable than older performers?
I not springing this position out of my ass. Rayveness also supports raising the minimum age.
@origen – You can’t organize a society by the lowest common denominator.
I’ll quote Nina Hartley:
“Whether or not we agree with or approve of them, the choices made by young women are theirs. If we are to grant autonomy to people over the age of eighteen, then that means accepting their choices as valid, even if we’d never do such a thing. This includes being able to join the army and get shot or maimed, or become a miner or construction worker. Those are deadly jobs … and no one thinks to tell a young adult, “Don’t do that job, it’s dangerous.” Or if we do tell them, we accept that, being young people, they may disregard our advice.
If we accept that a young woman can consent to have an abortion or become a parent, then it stands to reason that we must accept that she can consent to make pornography.”
@Michael,
But what about the CHOICES that made by producers. When you CHOOSE to produce porn, when you CHOOSE to hire people to take risks, you assume the ame legalresponsibility for what happens in YOUR workplace as any other employer.
And all of those 18 year olds in the Army have superior officers who do get held accountable for the people in their command.
Just out of curiosity Michael, lets say a girl gets a torn rectum on a porn set, What ususlly happens in that case?(We both know she gets dropped off at St. Josephs in Burbank and told good luck, see ya later)
Am I wrong, if so tell me what usually happens.(Time for some classic Michale dodgeball)
Perhaps Monica, or another female performer here can tell us what happens when an anal or vaginal injury happens on set.
@joe know — You know, I think your obsession with me is quite unhealthy. You may get off on this weirdness, but I have to tell you, I’m 100% heterosexual and I personally do not get the “charge” that you seem to from our little scuffles on LIB. Maybe you should write to Shelley. She thinks that people can (and should) be cured of their gayness through Christ, and she also claims to have a “spirit of deliverance” herself. You can be delivered, brother. Put your hand in the hand of the woman who dances for Yahweh.
The fact that 18 year olds in the armed services have superior officers does not change the fact that it’s a potentially deadly job, where the risks are FAR greater than in adult films. People can AND OFTEN DO get killed or maimed in the armed forces.
As for the on-set hypothetical you propose, my honest answer is I can’t say, because I’ve never witnessed a girl get a torn rectum (or anything else) on set, nor am I a producer of hardcore material myself. The only sex scenes I ever shot were softcore, although they frequently starred xxx performers. I’ve been on well over 100 XXX sets, and I have not witnessed that. That is my experience.
Well, as I alluded to before, just because 18 year olds are allowed to serve in combat doesn’t mean they should or that its right.
And who said anything about organizing society? Were are talking about standard business practice. When it comes to project management, as these are what porn productions are, the best standard is the one that is best in line with reality. Teenagers in porn are more likely to get injured, flake on their appearances, emotionally self-destruct, contract and suffer from STDs, and abuse hardcore drugs than their 21 year old counterparts. No, there isn’t a statistical study backing my assertion but I’m sure some people in Adult can anecdotally attest to its veracity.
It would be too extreme to ban porn outright and nonsensical to raise the minimum age to 50 so why not use the same standard that is used for drinking alcohol?
All I’m saying is that you should reduce the negative externalities of performing in porn while increasing the efficiency of productions. 20-somethings can still pass for teens.
Anyway, I love Nina Hartley–but I sense a little “if this then that” and circular reasoning in her statement…
@Michael,
Its amazing how you know so much about the Pink Cross and AHF, and you so much about their motives and agendas, yet when it comes to your own industry you play this denial game. You say youve never seen a physical injuy on set so you cant comment on it. But we all know full well, and so do you, that this does indeed happen with regularity.
You can state as fact what you believe these other organizations are doing, but claim ignorance when it comes to the porn industry. And again, every single one of those other dangerous occupaions offers legal remedies when injuries accur, the porn industry
offers NOTHING when these forseeable events happen. Am I wrong about this? If so, please tell us what the “industry does when someon gets std’s or HIV? I say they do nothing, what about you. What do porducers do when their empolyees get injured or sick?(looking forward to you dodging this question AGAIN.) You know full well the answer is NOTHING, but you just cant bring yourself to flat out admit it. Now dance around this central issue again. Its like you cant even see the 800 pound gorrilla at the center of this issue.
And as far as being straight or gay, your invitaion to me to lick your ass speaks for itself.
@Michael,
Performers CAN AND OFTEN DO get std’s and physical injuries while doing their jobs. Just like those other dangerous occupation(well maybe not catching stds in the workplace), and what does the porn industry do,,,NOTHING, ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. If I am wrong about this,please tell me what they do. Oh wait, you only know everything that Shelly and AHF do, you dont know anything about what the porn industry does.
Since youre working on you Shelly show, perhaps you could do a little investingating and ask some producers what they do when someone gets injured on a set. Of course you will never do that becuase the answers dont fit your agenda. Prove me wrong!! Like you say, you dont know be3cuase youve never seen it. Why dont you ask someone who has? Talk about motives and agendas, whats yours?
How often do we see a girl all fucked up on camera (hint: fairly often especially if its a new girl or minor porn star). I don’t think they should allow anyone to perform on camera if they are obviously all fucked up on drugs or alcohol. Getting yourself really fucked up so you can handle the pain of anal sex is a good indication that you are doing something wrong.
How many porn movies have we seen guys with huge horse cocks slamming it into a girls ass and her hand comes back to try and push the guy away or for him to slow down? Sometimes the guy backs off and sometimes the guy ignores that and keeps plowing away. Or he backs off and the next guy in the gangbang goes right to work on her ass doing the same thing.
If the girl is wasted on drugs she might not be able to make the right decision to stop and its only after she is straight again and has an anal tear of some kind does she wish she had. Isn’t that what happened to Amee Donovan?
There was a video posted about two years ago with Chasey Lain. She is obviously fucked up beyond belief, but they were ready to go ahead with the shoot anyway. This is a regular occurance in the porn industry. But of course Michael has never seen it himself so he cant comment on that, but he can comment on what everyone else does, but god forbid he comment on what porn prodiucers do, or dont do. His silence on this subject speaks louder than anything. He will dodge the questions like a good lawyer. He will NEVER say what producers do, what they should do, or even argue with the fact that they do nothing, its the PERFORMERS choice. Funny how he NEVER respos=nds when I ask about PRODUCERS CHOICES, and their choice to produce porn and hire people to take risks. And Michael will constanly mention other risky jobs, but he ignores the fact that those jobs offer remedies when injuries occur, and the porn industry does not.
So Michael, if Shelley is lying about the industry, are you going to tell us the truth, the WHOLE truth, or just the parts that make the industry look good. Wait, there are no parts that make the industry look good, thats why Michael never talks about the producers responsibility for the choices they make.
Michael, should the industry blackball producers who hire drugged up girls? And what about the agents who send these drugged up girls to shoots? Do they have any resposibility in all this?
@ joe know –
Yes, there are producers — video evidence clearly shows, or seemingly shows — who hire girls who are intoxicated/drugged up. This is outrageous, wrong and illegal and ANY producer who does this — as well as ANY company that condones it — should be cited, shunned, etc.. Intoxication negates consent. However, it is not always clear when someone is under the influence. I have met several people in my life — functioning alcoholics and druggies — who gave NO indication that they were under the influence, until they took A LOT of drugs or alcohol. But when it is clear — or even suspected — that someone is high on set they should be immediately sent home. Period. That’s what I would do.
I have only ONCE seen someone with illegal drugs on one of my sets (not doing them, but possessing them) and I sent him home. Again, this was a softcore set. It is dangerous, it means all sorts of potential liability for the producer, AND it means that, legally, that performer (or crew — it applies to them as well) may not have been legally “conscious” and thus incapable of giving consent and entering into a contract.
That said, it is common practice for performers, in mainstream as well as porn, to “loosen up” with, say, a glass of wine before a sex scene. I see nothing wrong with that, just as I see nothing wrong with a social drink.
If an agency sent drugged up (or drug-carrying) performer to my shoot, I would never use anyone from that agency again. While we cant say for sure that they knew, they SHOULD HAVE KNOWN. It’s their business to know, and if they fail me like that, they’ll never get my business again.
As for the whole anal tearing thing, what do you want me to say? I’ve never seen it, I’ve never had anyone tell me about an experience on set like that, so I CANNOT SAY definitively what would happen in that case. I have not asked around, and I really don’t have the inclination. It’s your fascination not mine.
Strangely, you also assert, vis-a-vis my comment above, “those jobs offer remedies when injuries occur, and the porn industry does not.” I would like to know what legal remedies the army offers when a soldier gets his head blown off in battle. Pension is not a legal remedy. A medal and a flag is not a legal remedy.
Let me add one more point.
If a performer is VOLUNTARILY intoxicated — they show up drunk or under the influence of some drug — but they seem fine (they’re not obviously, visibly intoxicated) and then they sign a contract/model release stating that they do not have diminished capacity, and are not under the influence, then TO HELL WITH THEM. In that case THEY are defrauding the producer and placing everyone involved at risk. They are creating liability by THEIR actions and they have unclean hands.
Strangely, I’ll argue joe’s point. We don’t usually agree but we agree here.
Remedy doesn’t mean reversing the negative condition. Most of the time that is impossible. It simply means offering some sort of (usually financial) compensation that DILIGENTLY attempts to relive pain and suffering.
I know full well the definition of remedy, origen. There are several different types of legal relief which can be enforced to remedy a situation. I am not writing specifically of “reversing the negative condition.”
Dead soldiers cannot have their own suffering eased; they’re dead. They also are no longer alive to sue on their own behalf. There’s no remedy available FOR THEM personally.
Pensions are BENEFITS not REMEDIES. Insurance is not a remedy. Soldiers, and many other workers who engage in dangerous careers, have no remedy for foreseeable risks and harms, even those which they survive.
@Michael,
You take the game of internet chatboard dodgeball to a whole new level.
Then you say about drugs on a set,,,’It means all sorts of potential liability for the PRODUCER>’
Thank you for finally admitting that PRODUCERS are resosible for what happens on a set. Thats a good first step towards ending your denial.
Michael, what percentage of porn producers would you estimate have the same policy that you state here regarding drugged up performers and their agents?
(Now give your lawyer dodgeball answer that ‘you dont know the policy of any other producer.)
Isnt it amazing that there are all these drugged up, whacked out girls, and the porn industry is waiting with open arms for them. But all the producers like Michael here someohow never see this.
Michael, you talk about how Shelley was so messed up before she ever got into porn, yet the industry had open arms for her. Nobody ever turned her away now dit they?
Julie, have you ever seen drugs used on a set?
Regarding that dead soldier,,,,no employer broke any law when that soldier got killed.
But what happens to that porn star with HIV Michael,,,are you going to interview lara rox or jessica de for your little documentary.
Of course you wont mention the legal remedies when cops get hurt, or firement get hurt or construcion workers. Funny you would forget to mention that. They ALL have legal redmedies. Mihael, do your sets have workers comp insurance? How much does thatcost you?(dodgeball)
So again you douchebag,,,what remedies does the porn industryo ffer,,,,forget all those other industries, we’re talking about porn here. (Now duck, here comes so more dodgeball)
But of course, feel free to bring chlamydia or gonnoraeh to a set right Michael. No liability issues there, eh Michael? Hell, bring your HIV to the set too.
It is hilarious how many porn producers have ‘never seen it on my set. As Chrisrian once wrote on his blog, “If someone tells you there arent ALOT of drugs they are simply lying to you.” I may not have the quote exact, but that is exaCTLY WHAT HE IS SAYING.
But he’s only been on thousands of sets, so
how would he know, right Michael?
Great lawyer like answer Michale. Dissecting the legal definition of remedy as if that absolves porn producers from liability. Nice try but no sale. Typical response of a porn apologist.
“INSURANCE is not a remedy” What is it Michael, oh wait, MOST porn sets dont have workers comp insurance now do they Michael, so thats not an issue.LOL
Michael, youre not folling anybody. You can dodge it all you want but we all know that the producers do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING when it comes to health and safety of performers on the set. Requiring performers to PAY for their own tests is not the producers showing resposibility, it is the performers showing responsibility. When I asked you this before you said that requiring testing was showing responsiblity, and I pointed out that if producers want to take credit for the testing they should pay for it. Of course you didnt respond to that.
So aside from performers paying for tests, what do producers do,,,I DEFY YOU TO GIVE ONE SINGLE EXAMPLE. You wont, becuase you cant. Prove me wrong, one example Michael, just one!!!
MICHAEL DODGEBALL TACTIC #3546354
Debate the legal meaning of terms like remedy, and benefits, as if that absolves producers from liability. And claim to know all your opponents motives, but claim ignorance on the motives of your allies. Classic doublespeak, out of both sides of yor ass.
Michael,
Do gay industry porn producers create liability by knowingly hiring HIV infected individuals to perform in their movies, on their sets, in their workplace?
Since it seems you think that having an intoxicated performer on a set creates liability of some kind, why wouldnt having someone with HIV or any other disease not create liability on the part of the PRODUCER?
Funny you should mention ‘creating liability’ and producers. And then you turn around and try to say that the PERFORMER is committing a fraud when they show up intoxicated. How daure anybody ever question the pure good hearted motives of these unfairly and unjustly accused porn producers.
@ joe know – You are a repulsively stupid and deranged man. Do you even know how you sound?
Kindly fuck off.
The only one here in denial is you; you cannot face the fact that you are in over your intellectual depth.
I have no personal, firsthand knowledge what shape “Roxy” aka Shelley Moore was in when she showed up porn sets. One has to ask her producers and directors. No one I’ve read of or spoken to remembers her high on set. I have not spoken to every person with whom she interacted (many are no longer on the business) but I’d certainly like to. The few that recall her at all (very few) just remember her, by and large, as hard looking, cold, and street-hookerish.
No I’m not going to interview Lara Roxx or Jessica Dee. They have nothing to do with Mrs. Lubben or the Pink Cross. I’m not making an oral history of porn. I have, however, interviewed MANY MANY porn stars who have interacted with Shelley, and they each tell, independently, the same or very similar stories.
I did not forget the alleged legal remedies when firemen or cops get hurt. You obviously misunderstand how that process works.
I do not discuss my budgets, or line items on them. They are my business. They are proprietary. But I comply with ALL applicable law. Various government entities perform inspections, and I have NEVER had ANY problem. Ever. I’ve also never had any injuries or insurance claims. Ever. Not once since from first production in 1999 to the present.
I sincerely doubt that Christian has been on thousands of sets. Nina Hartley hasn’t been on “thousands” and she’s been in the business since 1984. And I don’t know the quote to which you are referring. If he’s talking about the industry in general, you could say the same about the population in LA at large. Do you think there isn’t a lot of drugs in the entertainment industry generally? Or the music industry? You’re kidding yourself if you do. Drugs are a social/cultural phenomenon. Porn is not immune, nor is porn the cause. Should Richard Attenborough not welcome Robert Downey Jr with open arms when he directed “Chaplin”? Should the Beacon Theater in NYC not have welcomed Miles Davis with open arms when I saw him perform there in the 1980s?
May I ask how many sets YOU have been on, Joe?
@joe know
Joe asks:
“Do gay industry porn producers create liability by knowingly hiring HIV infected individuals to perform in their movies, on their sets, in their workplace?”
Since gay porn doesn’t test (by and large), how would they “knowingly” hire an infected performer? “To Know” means, in this instance, to know to a reasonable certainty. Hearsay does not form the basis for reasonable certainty. Taking someone’s word for it — whether they claim to be positive or negative — is not a reasonable certainty.
And if you can’t see why it is ESSENTIAL for people engaging in debate to agree on the definitions of terms at the outset, then you are simply an imbecile.
If you cant keep up with the conversation, you’ll have to go sit at the children’s table, Joey.
We need to worry about raising the minimum wage before the minimum age in porn, origen.
You talk about 18 year olds supposedly not being able to fuck (and I respect that you say they’re not old enough to kill or be killed for Uncle Scam).
Meanwhile, we still have fully grown adults who still believe the official story of JFK (magic bullet) or 9/ll, etc.
It’s common knowledge among the global intelligence agencies that 9/11 was a false flag operation. Morgan Reynolds, former director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis made this claim. What made it obvious, in his words, were the stand down orders of U.S. air defenses, controlled demolition of the WTC, including building 7 and the lack of protection of the President in Florida. The head of the Russian equivalent of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the former head of German intelligence service Andreas Von Bulow, former National Security Agency official Waynew Madsen, former MI-6 agent David Shayler, former State Department translator Sibel Edmonds (who said the Bin Ladens were “under our management”) and former Pakistani ISI chief Hami Gul have all openly called 9/11 an inside job… Even Bush appointed 9/11 Commission member John Farmer admitted in 2009 that “There was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened”. THE POINT IS WE GOT MUCH MORE IMPORTANT ISSUES THAT WHETHER GIRLS WHO ARE OLD ENOUGH TO BLEED AND LEGALLY OLD ENOUGH TO BREED SHOULD OR SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED TO FUCK ON CAMERA AT THE SAME “LEGAL” AGE.
I meant you claim that 18 y.o.’s are not clear-headed or capable enough to decide whether or not to fuck for a living… but I think you know what I meant…
Also, it’s no wonder with how corrupt and bankrupt things are that so many cuties are turning to the sex industry… of course there’s more to it than that, as well…. Let’s get our priorities straight.
… You’re saying Origen, “Should an 18 year old, on camera, be allowed to spread her wings?”, and I’m saying “Where the hell are the wing imprints from the ‘plane’ that hit the Pentagon?”.
As I said, get your priorities straight!
Sincerely,
The Germ of Steele
Jeremy, give me a break. I thought you are a nice guy. Are you seriously telling me that teenage starlets have the same experience as their older colleagues? You would just turn your back on a visibility intoxicated young girl on set and bang her anyway because “9/11 was a conspiracy”?
Get your priorities straight! lol
Anyway, its YOUR industry. Do what you like but it doesn’t make it right.
BTW, raising the minimum wage for porn is a good idea if performers would band together to form a UNION.
@ Michael Witheacre: Yeah, I’m not a lawyer but I’m not going down that wild goose chase of comparing DEAD publicly employed military servicemen to LIVING privately employed porn performers.
My main point is, yeah, “freedom of speech & sexual expression” but porn shouldn’t permanently ruin a performer’s body and mental state without some producer/agent accountability.
Thank you for your time, sir. Good day to you.
Such as an NFL player ending his career with 1 too many concussions and physical ailments that’ll stick with him for life? hold his agent and/or the NFL accountable? DISAGREE!
What are you talking about Kalamazoo? Injured NFL players are given a settlement package or they are entitled to pursue workers’ comp…
NFL players have lengthy contracts with the team/league. They have bargained for certain rights that they may later exercise.
Volenti non fit injuria, origen. To the willing there s no injury.
Ever go to a baseball game, origen? If you get hit in the head by a fly ball and get a brain injury, you can’t sue the team or the league. You have assumed the risk. That’s right, a spectator doesn’t even have the right to sue because the risk is foreseeable — what remedies do you think players have, then?
And yes, as the Brooke Ashley case demonstrates, porn performers have the right to sue for worker’s comp. Then, on a case by case basis, a legal standard — a test — is used to determine whether, under the facts of that instant case, an adequate relationship existed to justify worker’s comp liability.
Again, Mr. Whiteacre, I’m not a lawyer, but the degree to which venues are liable for spectator injuries depends upon what is indicated in the appropriate statutes. Some states declare that sporting venues are liable if an injury occurs from wanton and UNNECESSARY conduct.
Also, like you said, the relationship between a spectator and a venue versus the relationship between and an employer and an employee are two different things. In porn, STDs and physical injuries fall under valid reasons for workers’ comp due to regulations listed in Title 8 of the California Code. Yes, judgment is awarded on a case by case basis–but I thought LESS litigation was better for business.
We’re not talking about “wanton and unnecessary conduct.” We’re talking about FORESEEABLE risks. There is no principal of law anywhere in our system, going back to common law, that awards damages for foreseeable risks.
In addition, contracts — often contracts whose terms cannot be altered or even negotiated — often apply to these relationships. A contract/model release or a ticket to a baseball game. Read the back of the admission ticket sometime — you assume certain risks upon entrance and waive libility. Or read the back of the ticket you receive when you park in the parking lot. “This is not a bailment.”
My point re: the “case by case basis” is not that more people should litigate, it is that there exists a legal standard that must be applied in each case to determine whether or not such a relationship exists for purposes of worker’s comp — it does not exist as a matter of law. Whether or not it exists is a matter of the FACTS of the instant case.
But Mike, dude, adult performers are employees. As such they are given certain protections under California state law. State regulations require that producers have several contingencies in order to prevent set injuries and STD contraction. If a performer contacts an STD on set, and the producer did not have those contingencies in place, the producer will almost certainly be required to pay worker’s comp. Foreseeable risk on the performer’s end has nothing to do with it.
No, dude, adult performers are not, per se, employees. SOME adult performers have been ruled to have been “employees” FOR PURPOSES OF WORKER’S COMP.
That doesn’t mean they are employees for ALL purposes or in all respects.
There are many instances in the law of certain types of workers being ruled employees for certain purposes and in certain respects, but not in others. It can be split.
Fair enough, hommie. I see what you are saying. I’m not a lawyer so I figured you’d take me to school on the legal mechanics of the adult industry.
I still think its bad business practice for there to be widespread drug abuse, STD transmission, and injury in association with performing in porn. This kind of douchebagery is what attracts AHF and people like Shelly Lubben.
It also makes a bad product, IMO.
Michale,
Wsnt It Treasure Media that put out a press release about hiring an HIV positive performer to an exclusive contract.
How is that for KNWOINGLY hiring an HIV positive performer.
And you still havenot listed ONE SINGL THING that producers do regarding health and safety, and there is a reason for that. Becuase ther isnt a single theing they do. KEEP DODGING THIS ISSUE MICHAEL. This is the CORE of the issue and you have no reply for it. Deep[ talking about other indusstries all you want, when it comes to porn we all know that producers do nothing…Is this statemetn wrong Michael,
JUST ONE EXAMPLE MICHAEL, just one.
Heres the deal Michael,,,you give us one credible example of what producers do regardign health and safety of performers on their sets and I will go away permanantly. JUST ONE EXAMPLE.(I have a feling I will be here for a long time)
Youre weak lawyer like answers do not absolve producers from responsibility for their EMPLOYEES.
Michale,
You talk about baseballgames, guys in the army,construction workers, everyody except porn performers. Comparing an injured fan at a baseball game to an injured employee on a porn set. Very lawery like of you(a bad laywer I might add)
Fans at a sporting event are not EMPLOYEES. Porn performers are. EVERY SINGLE TIME a porn company has been cited, EVERY SINGLE TIME the epmployee relationship has been determined. Every case, on an individual basis has been determined to be an employee relationship, every singl one. Get over that bullhsi argument, it has been decided already.
You are right about the employee relationship being split, and for the purposes of workers comp, and employee safety, they have always been declared EMPLOYEES.
More lawwery lie answers. Try to cloud the issue by talking about fans at a baseball game,,that takes the cake.
Drugs on set make producers liable, according to Michael, but HIV on a set isnt the producers problem, right Mike? LOL
No, Joe, it was Treasure ISLAND Media that put out the press release. But, yes, that seemingly would constitute an example of knowingly hiring an HIV positive performer (again, assuming its true. I don’t know if anyone has verified his status — that’s a question of fact. It would also depend on whether, legally, the test that was used can be used or relied upon to make that determination as a matter of law).
However, that said, it was also a press release indicating that another, allegedly HIV negative performer WANTED to work with him. They had been signed as an HIV neg/poz pairing. Call the HIV negatove model a bug chaser if you want, but THEY DO EXIST. Are you going to tell him with whom he can and cannot have sex? It’s his body.
So, the hiring of an (allegedly) HIV+ model was not done in a vacuum. And furthermore, by that poz performer being labelled as such, aren’t gay porn models all the safer now? Anyone who doesn’t want to take the risk can steer clear of him, and those that WANT TO TAKE THE RISK can do so.
Joe says:
“give us one credible example of what producers do regardign [sic] health and safety of performers on their sets and I will go away permanantly [sic].”
Joe, when you put it like that, why on earth would I want to indulge you with an answer? Why would I want you to go away permanently? What would I do without you to exemplify the idiocy of the misinformed, and the dangers of fanaticism? I hope you stay here forever. It’s where you belong.
For any job you are always considered an employee FIRST. In any litigation is it the EMPLOYER who has the duty to prove someone is an IC.
EVERY SINGLE TIME a porn company has had to litigate this issue it has been ruled in favor of the EMPLOYEE. EVERY SINGLE TIME. Thats called precedent, isnt it Michael? Since 2004 this has happened 16 times with OSHA alone. 16 times employee,,0 times IC.
Just one example Mike. Still waiting.
I’m laughing at you Joe.
Laughing, laughing, laughing.
Choke on that.
Hey, Joe, why don’t you ask your attorney pal MF for some more tips.
Maybe he will also tell you why people in the adult industry don’t trust him.
Oh, and I’m still laughing at you, schmuck.
I have asked Michael numerous times to give one example of what producers do regarding health and safety on a porn set. Once he mentioned testing, but performers pay for their own tests even BEFORE they get hired. I pointed out to Michael that if producers want to take credit for testing then they should pay for it. How does a performer paying for their own test sometimes weeks before they are hired somehow be twistd into the producers showing responsitblilty.
Then Micaehl responds, “When you put it like that why on earth would I indulge you….”
What bullshit. Dodge all you want. YOU DONT HAVE AN ANSWER. That is why you wont respond. On several other forums I have posted the same questions to Julei Meadows, and of course have NEVER gotten a response.
And there is a reason for this…The last thing the porn industry wants to see is the truth, the WHOLE truth. And one always has to question the credibility of someone who wont concede the obvious, clear cut, and indusputable facts. Whats good for the goose is good for the gander Michael.
Just one example Mike, and I will be gone.(again, I aint going anywhere anytime soon, am I mike?)
Perhaps if you had been correct in ANY of your analyses, Joe, or more willing to concede ANY point, others would indulge you.
It’s impossible to talk to a closed mind.
And why would anyone give you the answer you want when you’re such a prick?
Let me answer you this way, Joe: your question is a loaded one, and that is why I refuse to answer it directly. It’s like asking someone, “Do you still beat your wife” — it ASSUMES facts not in evidence. You assume a duty of producers which is far too broad. You assume a relationship exists that does not EXCEPT IN PARTICULAR INSTANCES as discussed above FOR PURPOSES OF WORKER’S COMP ONLY. You are attempting to extrapolate and I don’t agree with your reasoning. That’s it.
And if you honestly think that no one can see what you’re doing here, and that they instead think you are simply looking for “the truth” absent any agenda, then you’re even dumber that I previously thought.
Oh, and I notice you didn’t address my reference to that attorney — AGAIN.
You wanna have a friendly debate about him? Or some other individuals you know personally?
Do you wanna have a go with me on this board, Mr. Joe?
Do you really want to open up a can of worms or two?
How many sets have you been on, Joe? YOU STILL HAVEN”T ANSWERED THAT.
And of course you’re not going anywhere, Joe. You’ve already been laughed out of everywhere else, haven’t you now? Or forced out.
Still laughing, Joe, still laughing….
I do not know MF. I have never spoken with him. All I know is that he particpates in several adult industy boards and has a practive he calls abultbizlaw. That is all I know of him.
And like the good lawer you are again you try to deflect away from the most curical question in this entire debate,,,what responsiblities do PRODUCERS have to their employees? You bring internet dodgeball to a new level Mike.
I have been to working porn sets at least 100 times. And for the record, I have NEVER seen one sinlge health and safety precaustion enforced by a producer. MOST of those sets didnt even supply personal cleaning supplies such as basic soap and towels for performers either.
Now again, what do producers do regarding health and safety? Why is this such a hard question for you to answer? At least tell us why you wont answer the question.
And then you say about treasure Island hiring known HIV psoitve perfromers….That would “seemingly” constitute an example of hiring an HIV postiive performer..”
LOL “SEEMINGLY” bullshit. You cant even concede the point when a company puts out a press release announcing that this is EXACTLY what they are doing. To what lengths will your denial go Michael?
Just one example Michael.(Your silence is golden) Even Sharon Mitchell concedes that producers do nothing, but I guess you know more about health and safety issues in the PORN INDUSTRY than she does, right Michael?
Keep laughing Mike, it diesnt change the facts that you wont answer the question becuase the trught doesnt fit your agenda. If the truthful answer to my question was good for the industry youwould have no problem answering it. But since you know the truth doesnt fit the industry agenda, you dance around it like a puppet on a string. Dance all you want monkey, you are as transparent as reading glasses. Youre not fooling anyone.
You could end this with just one example Mike, and I will concede and call you the winner, but we both know you cant. IF YOU COULD YOU WOULD BUT YOU CANT SO YOU WONT.(now go back to the dodgeball court mike)
“What resposibilites do you feel filmmakers have towrds actors regarding drug use, safe sex etc..?
Sharon Mitchell “…..becuse the filmmakers feel they have NO responsibility for the healthcare of the talent.”
“How do you think the industry is dealing with actors and actresseswho have been infected with AIDS(HIV) as far as emotional and financial support or being there for them?
Sharon Mitchell..”They’re not.” “And what little suport their is working as a salespersonor an editor….which is better than nothing.”
Did you ever get an std while doing porn?
Sharon Mitchell…”Yes……thisis standard when you have sex fora living.
Any chance of forcint filmmakers to take responsibility for health risks through OSHA or similar government agencies?
Sharon Mitchell,,,”I have tried until I am blue in the face…..I will be right behind them tooting my horn.”
This is from an interview Mitch did years ago,,,and still NOTHING has changed.
See MIKE, even sharon mitchell admits that producers do nothing, why cant you. You lose credibility when you ignore the facts about your own industry. Of course you know all the facts about Shelly and AHF,but to turn and claim ignaorance about your own indusrtry is just not intelectually honest.
If Mitch can admit it why cant you? Or do you know better. Mitch is untouchable, but for you to speak the truth, just like wroking performers coming forward, do you fear being blackballed.
The truth is to porn what cryptonite is to superman.
To what lengths will I go? Accuracy.
Joe, do you believe everything you read? I’ll assume you don’t. Why must I? We’re talking about legal duties here, right? To do so we must hold EVERY ASPECT of the discussion to a legal standard. I do not accept that a press release from an entertainment company is per se accurate and truthful to a legal standard. Do you understand the difference between a statement that is “true” and one that is “not untrue?” It’s a distinction worth noting.
Of course, you also ignore the second part of my answer re: Treasure Island Media, just as you ignore anything facts that don’t fit your cock-eyed worldview.
I never said I knew more, or less than Sharon Mitchell, those are your words. I am saying that you are BIASED. In addition, Sharon Mitchell doesn’t visit that many sets. Anything she hears is hearsay — possibly from biased idiots like you.
Also, you are conflating legal duties with practical responsibilities and courtesy. Dies a producer have a legal duty to provide a dressing room to a performer? This whole discussion can get ridiculous real fast if we follow your non-logic.
I am also saying — AGAIN, since your reading comprehension is clearly quite poor — that I will never answer a question the foundation of which relies upon assumptions with which I don’t agree. Why would I? Just so you could twist my answer to fit your desired agenda. Fuck you.
And for the record, I’ve been on far more sets than you — going back to 1993, and I HAVE seen personal cleaning/hygiene supplies EVERY time I’ve looked around (or just when I had to use the toilet). I’m talking about big companies, three man crews, and everything in-between. I can’t even guess how many sets I’ve been on. I know I visited at least three to four a month from 1997 to 2004 alone. Maybe you’re hanging out on some low-end, bullshit sets. That would make sense if they let you on set. I would advise any performer to immediately walk off any set such as what you described — a set without basic hygiene supplies such as soap, wipes, hand sanitizer, douches, towels, etc… Anyone who respects their own health would do so.
Joe Know is to truth what mad cow disease is to cattle.
Good day.
And i have conceded many points here Michael. now your just flat out being dishonest. I concede that EVERYBODY has responsibilities, performers, agents, producers, directors, everybody.
I have conceded that OSHA enforcement is a joke and will continue to be ajoke regardless of the outcome of any hearings.
I have conceded that most people enter the industry and leave the industry no worse for the experience.
I have conceded that many performers(usually female) USE the industry to attain a higher goal(usually education for a real career after porn).
I have repeatedly conceded all this and more over my time here on LIB,,,yet you wont even concede that the gay company that signed an HIV positive perfromer is creating liablilty for themselves and the industry as a whole. They put out a press release annoucnig it and you say it “SEEMINGLY” indicates that.
What is so loaded about this,,,’give one example of what producers do regarding health and safety. You did it once when you tried to give credit to producers for the tests that performers take WEEKS BEFORE getting hired. I shot that down, and since then you havent come up with a single thing,,not one single thing. What is so loaded about that Mike? YOU tried once Mike, why not try again? Your a joke, but a dam good dodgeball player.
Still dodging eh, Michael?
You tried to answer the question once, and I ate your bullshit answer for luch.And now that you cant think of one single example(becuase there are none) you throw up more deflector sheilds(baseball fans,LOL) than the Starship Enterprise.
One example ends it Michael and you win,,,just one.
Are you biased Mike?
You are completely comfortable making assumptions about Shelly and the AHF arent you? But you wont make assumptions about yor own industry.
This isnt a court of law, to try to defelect the issue of treasure island by saying there is no proof of what theyare doing is dishonest and you know it. Your lawerlike drivel isnt fooling anybody.
Regarding cleaning things on set,,,maybe you should watch PORN 101 fromAIM. The section where they talk about the lack of sanitary supplies on sets might be of some educational value to you. But hey, again you must know more than Mitch.
And now you have resorted to the tried an true ad hominen attacks,,,,the last resort of internet douchebags who cant successfully argue their point.
“Since your reading comprehension is clearly quite poor”
What next, attacking the spelling errors,,is that all you have, becuase you DONT have one single example.
YOU have the power to end this Michael, and get rid of JOE forever, just give one example. If ANYBODY can give one example I will retire for good. That is how confident I am that you dont have a snowballs chance in hell of coming up with one single thing. If you could you would.
ANd Sharon Mithell hasnt seen many sets…WHAT?
And then you talk about producers providing dressing rooms….WHAT?
Dont bring drugs to a set,,that might create liability for the producer accrding to Michael, but feel free to bring your std or HIV, thats not the producers problem, right Mike?
And regarding ‘low end bullshit sets’ thats the majority of the porn idustry you just described.
@joe know — Can’t you read, you moron?
I never stated I won’t make assumptions — we all do — I wrote that I DO NOT AGREE WITH YOURS. Cretin.
“Sharon Mitchell doesn’t visit that many sets.” That’s present tense. She was on plenty of sets years ago. Now she’s either at AIM or sunning herself in Santa Cruz.
You crack me up. YOU only want to hear about and will only focus on negative things that you see in the adult business, but I, who don’t agree with your AGENDA am an apologist in your eyes — just because I don’t buy YOUR party line. You’re fair-minded and balanced and I have an agenda — what a crock of shit. Fuck you.
And, BTW, I’ve already attacked you spelling errors, idiot — thats what the [sic]’s are for.
Joe says:
“And regarding ‘low end bullshit sets’ thats the majority of the porn idustry you just described.” Says you. Amazing how you are brimming with hatred and contempt for everyone in this business. It must be really sad being you?
Ever get fired from a job in porn? Is that it?
You want revenge?
Ever have people in the industry pour scorn in your begging bowl?
Are you a nobody that no one ever paid any attention to, who now wants to feel like a big shot?
Hey Joe, here’s a thought, why don’t you pull that dildo out of your ass, crawl out of your mother’s basement, and start your own adult production company — one that subscribes to all the ethical standards and business practices you preach. Become a guiding light for the industry. Have others follow in your footsteps to emulate your success.
No, because you’d rather sit there alone in the darkened basement, eating your single-serving microwave meal, tapping away at your keyboard instead of actually DOING something. You sit there and put down hard working people who provide work for hundreds and hundreds of people. All you do is knock them down, and call them names. Well, fuck you. If you don’t like it change it motherfucker. Be an example. be a leader. Stop moaning and groaning and carping and attacking We’re all sick of it.
Lead, follow or get the fuck out of the way.
PS Fuck off
Now Michale pulls a trick outof the Colonels book.
As if saying I live in a basement, eat tv dinners, and have a didlo uyp my ass. Now that really absolves producers form liablitiy doesnt it. Now the only thing left is to atackthe spelling mistakes. you cant argue your positionon producer liability so you resort to this now?
I fully support performers, and producers right to work, and I support performers standing up for their legal rights. I fully support the exercise of free speech, for pornographers, for you and for myself.
Making up stories about tv dinner and basements,,is that all you got Michael. Youre an idiot, Colonel has been doing that here for years.
You have officially jumped the shark Michael, with your Colonel impersonation. Resorting to that level of discourse onlyshows your true colors, loud and clear. You dont like the message. soattack the messanger. Idiots like you are a dime a dozen on the internet.
Just one example Michael and you can be rid of me forever. But we both know you never will, becuase there isnt anything for you to say. Even Mitch, who knows more about this subject than you me and anyone else readily admits that producers do nothing. Why cant you?
As far as forming that ethical porn company that offer prtoections for performers,,its already been done, its called WICKED Pictures. And they make lots of money.
THE FACT IS MICHAEL, it is YOU who is afraid to admit the obvious for fear of retaliation from your own industry. That is becoming more and more clear with every dodgball answer you give. Your fear of your own industry prevents you from being honest about it, just like it prevents alot of performers from coming forward. Take your attakcs on BrittanyAndrews on this very sight is a perfect example. What lengths will you go to prevent performers from voicing their opinion without attacking them for it. Youre a hypocrite of the worst kind, dishonest, and simply wrong on alot of the facts, but that never stiopped you before. You know everything about Shelley and the AHF but claim ignorance on what happens in porn. Are you really so delusional that you dont think people see right through you?
Just one example Mike and I go away. Or is this debate with me the only publicity youre getting these days? I see youre up to 372 view on your video. Youre really showing the world Mike!!!
And regardinsg sitting at my keyboard and typing awasy….considering you are doing this exact smae thing on how many other sites? Work must be pretty slow that you have all this time, not only here but on several other sites. All those sites, all that talk, and 372 views for your Shelley documentary videos. ANd Julies series of vidoes with her husband are up to 450 WOW!!!!!! ANd you know its the same people. LOL!! Can you say irrelevent bombs!!! And you still havent told us who those important people are that have been writing to you about this. LOL
Keep the ad hominem attacks coming Michael. Your desperation is showing. Try as hard as you like, the question remains,,,one single example is all you have to give, what is so hard about that, aside from the FACT that there is not one single example to give.
You dont buy my party line,,,what is your pary line Mike? You know everybody else’s party line, and you have no problem telling us what Shelley’s party line is. You have no problem telling us what AHF’s party line is. You have no problem telling us what my prty line is.
So why not tell us what the porn industry party line is Mike? You comment on everybody else’s motives, why not yoru own and your industry’s?
Mike,
In an earlier post you said I am biased on this subject. You made that a flat out staement.
Are you biased in any way on this issue? Since you stated as if it were fact that I am, then you should know if you are or not.
Are you biased?
“Ever get fired from porn”
‘You want revenge”
“Are you a nobody that nobody ever paid attention to(youre paying alot of attention to me, thanks)
‘Pull the didlo out of your ass”
WOW you sure now how to win a debate Michael. Who can argue with logic like yours. Now you have resorted to the level of Jeremiah and the Colonel. And all you have to do to end this is give one example, which you never will,,,you tried once but failed miserably, give it another try.
If you truely want to end this then just give us one example Mike, is it that hard?(yes)
And I just got a copy of another videotape of that UCLA meeting. Why did youleave out the part where Mr. Marcus says, ‘I am not opposed to condoms’ Will you please post that part of the meeting for everyone to see, or does it not fit your agenda?
Man you two should just get a room.
@joe — First of all, the video I have used of the UCLA panel was not shot my me (obviously — I’m in it) and does not belong to me. The entity which owns/controls the rights to the documentary (created simply for the purpose of producing the doc and controlling its distribution) only has the rights to use the sequences featuring me and Shelley.
But, in any case, why would I post Mr. Marcus’ comments regarding condoms? I’m not doing a documentary on health and safety in porn, I’m doing a piece in Mrs. Lubben.
But in, any case, THE LORD WORKS IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS. I had dinner and cocktails at The Rainbow Bar & Grill tonight — my first time in a long time — and Shelley Lubben WAS THERE with Ricky B, the “producer” of her album (and also her “videographer”). We did a twenty minute interview in the Rainbow driveway/parking lot. He recorded it on his camera, as did my dinner companion on my iPhone. Mrs. Lubben’s fear was that I would quote her out of context, so I have decided to post it in its entirety. The video is still transferring, so I haven’t yet seen it, but the only alterations I will make will be to clean up the sound and picture. In good faith, I signed a release for Mrs. Lubben, and she may use her video as she wishes. It is my wish that she not quote ME “out of context” but as we all know that is a subjective term. The truth shall indeed set us all free.
Yep, Michael, you are desperate. You’re not going to stop me regardless of what you do. I find it “coincidental” you just happened to be standing there when I walked back to use the restroom and there’s a camera on my face.
Keep following me if you want but like I said, you’re just helping my cause. I get more people coming to my site because of youtube than ever! And thousands are writing me thanking me they learned the truth about porn and especially the truth about Jesus Christ, that He loves them and He has a better plan than porn for their lives!
I’ll be praying for you at my altar with my big 8 ft. staff ;
Shelley
Following you? Why are you so paranoid, Mrs. Lubben? I thought only criminals were that paranoid?
I live two blocks away from the Rainbow. I walked to dinner there. At my table, my dinner companion spotted you (you arrived after me — which by the way, was witnessed and attested to by independent witnesses). Rather than rudely interrupt your dinner, I waited for you to get up. I thought you were walking to the front door — because the bathroom is the other way (left from your table in front of the fireplace, but you went right).
No Shelley, I wouldn’t know where to begin to follow you. Where would I have followed you from? Bakersfield. You came to my street and you accuse me? It’s far more likely that you are following me, isn’t it Mrs. Lubben. You come to the restaurant where I am having dinner and bring along a videographer. Hmmm. All I had was the camera on my iPhone. If I were stalking you, I would have brought my professional camera, the same one I’ve used to interview a host of people who debunk you and your ministry.
I notice how once the cameras are off, the real Roxy, I mean Shelley, comes out.
Shelley, you are in my prayers as well. Best of luck to you.
Cheers,
MW
Um… When you called to tell me you interviewed Shelley Lubben in The Rainbow parking lot, we never even considered the idea that she was following you! Wow. Just wow! I didn’t know you were so stealth at following people who live out of town, in your neighborhood… and with an iPhone, too! You must have an altar and a staff in your home.
How come God didn’t warn her that I’d be there? If she talks to God, why was she surprised?
Shelley, do you mean to say that the God with whom you are on a first-name basis would send his prophet into the lion’s den (Ari, short for Ariye/Ariyeh, means lion in Hebrew, Shelley) without warning?
Perhaps you should consider that it was not coincidence, Shelley, but instead divine plan. Remember what King Saul did when he fell out of favor with the Good Lord because of his actions?
Scripture is notoriously unclear about the fate of King Saul, Michael. Some passages allude to suicide whereas others allude to death in battle.
Carry on.
Thank you, origen.
You are correct. In Samuel, at Gilboa, Amalekite saw that Saul’s life was still in him. King Saul asked the Amalekite to kill him.
Then in the Book of David, they had the Amalekite killed “for killing the Lord’s anointed.”
What is indisputable is that, according to every version of the tale, Saul lost favor, lost in battle, and then died.
It could be interpreted that Saul’s intention was to commit suicide, but was unsuccessful. He apparently did not want the P’lishtim (the Philistines) to torture him and so wished to die quickly.
Shelley, first let me say how much I enjoy what you do….
You are so entertaining! You’re youtube video were you promote your book is a huge hit with me, my co-workers, and my friends. THAT’S A BUNCH OF CRAP!!!! has become somewhat of a catchphrase for us. We love it. Thank you Shelley.
Also, we love how much you made a fool of yourself in your video “Ex Porn Star Preaches in a Porn Convention”. Then you make a bigger fool of yourself by writing in your blog about it, and thats not what really happened, as shown by the videotape evidence.
You are fucking crazy!
Probably my favorite blog post of yours is the one were you had a list of porn stars to pray for. Kayden Kross’ name was on that list, and I find that interesting because there is no love lost between you two. Very nice of you , Shelley.
One last thing: do you have any pics of you or your team reaching out to the Wicked Girls? I’d love to see that, and what any of your disciples think of it.
@Michael — Doug is convinced that Lubben is stalking you. I can’t convince him otherwise, even after I relayed what you said.
I just want to say that one of my favorite Lubben moments, so far, is where she tells the congregation that the porn industry isn’t showing up to the discussions anymore. Not only has the industry showed up for every discussion, but the one time they were deliberately not invited, pushed out, basically, by not being informed, members of the adult community forced their way in! And how did they find out about the gathering? Michael saw it posted on Lubben’s site! How obnoxious and anti-Christian is it to lie and lead people you know have no clue about the realities of an industry?
I just watched the video three times and I can estimate, fairly, that the church isn’t backing away from “porn”, Shelley Lubben, they’re backing away from you.
Last night Shelley bragged to me about her “snitches” (her word) in the adult industry, and how she gets so much of the rest of her intelligence data from doing screen-grabs of sites such as LIB, AdultFYI, etc,,. It’s on video. Anyone on this board nervous?
How do you informants like being called “snitches” and “double agents?” Openly, in a bragging way (its in part 2 of my video with Shelley, to be uploaded tonight). Get a bad taste in your mouth yet?
I’d advise everyone reading this to take heed. Loose lips sink ships, people.
Did we really need to hear reports of espionage to realize that this is a war?
Of course Shelley screencaps everything on the blogs & forums. So do the local police and FBI. The porn industry is its own worst enemy.
You don’t think many of the people on these sites are law enforcement themselves baiting all of you?
@Michael,
Are you worried that those snitches are giving her reliable, truthful information? Of course you are, otherwise you wouldnt be issuing warnings about it. LOL
Michael, did you approach Shelley, or did Shelley approach you? IF you approached her, was your camera running as you approached her or did you turn it on after you bagan your conversaion. And if she approached you was her camera running as she approached you?
@ joe know — well, speaking of Judas Goats…
Am I worried? No, pal, you’re the one who should be worried.
As for The Rainbow, the tape speaks for itself. Look at it.
I fail to see the point of what you’re asking. What’s the difference?
Whats the difference.
I just wanted to know if EITHER of you was rude enough to approach the other with camera running. I wanted to know if this was an “ambush” interview on either of your parts, seeing as how you were both in a public place, and there for private reasons. I think it would have been rather rude for either of you to approach the other in this manner.
And I agree, loose lips sink ships,but only when they tell the truth.
No joe, a lie can be damaging too. Like telling falsehoods about what happens on sets — everyone’s mentally ill, they’re all (or 90%) on drugs, porn is rape, the girls are being forced, they’re being force-fed drugs, blah blah blah… But I was speaking more of unsubstantiated talk — rumors and gossip mainly.
As for The Rainbow, neither of us ambushed the other. Neither of us walked up with a camera rolling. Mine had just started rolling when she walked toward me.
I was nearly finished with dinner when Lubben came in with her sheeple. My immediate reaction — other than surprise — was, naturally, “How can I get some video for my documentary.”
You asked about video cameras. Let’s be clear– I did not bring a video camera, per se. I had my cell phone on me — an iPhone 4 which also has a video camera function. Now, “Ricky B.” Burchell — Kurtis Blow’s producer, incidentally (you remember what Brooke Ashley wrote about Kurtis and Shelley, do you not) was carrying the BIG video camera you see in the video. They were there to shoot, and they asked permission from the doorman to do so. I overheard it, and he later reiterated that he told them they could shoot inside for five minutes as long as they didn’t bother anyone or block any pathway.
After I finished dinner, I saw that Shelley and company were seated at a table near the entrance to the restaurant — a large semi-circular booth facing the Rainbow’s fireplace. I was not going to attempt an ambush at her table. Aside from the rudeness of it — and yes, interrupting someones dinner would be rude — what would I have gotten? Ten seconds of video? In addition, I’d be blocking the servers and customers. I had just heard, seconds earlier, that such a thing would not be cool at The Rainbow. I certainly wasn’t going to get myself thrown out of the place. So I waited. I went and talked to the doorman and told him I intended to shoot. Then I went to the bar to wait. I had to pass the side of her table as I went to the bar, and perhaps that’s when she saw me. She might have seen me earlier, but I don’t know.
In any case, she and her party seemed to only order drinks (soft drinks), and then, from the side of the bar, I could see Lubben get up and head toward the tiny foyer which leads to the exit door. I walked away from the bar, turning on my camera as I went (its a pain in the ass on the iPhone. I have to enter my unlock code, then select the app, then choose video instead of still camera), and I stood at the entrance to the foyer. She walked toward the foyer (toward me), and since my camera was now rolling, I turned it on her, and I addressed her. She walked up to me, recognized me immediately, and addressed me. She wanted to shoot an interview too.
As you can see from the video, she then immediately called to Ricky to bring his camera and we both agreed immediately to a mutual interview. So we went outside. Before we started, we agreed to try and make it as cordial and polite as possible. Things got hot at points, and we certainly didn’t hide what we think of each other, but that’s how it is. It’s reality. We gave each other plenty of time, and we each made points. Then I walked home and she went back inside.
“We are the church.” I just saw Part Two…. Wow. So righteous!
Shelley, “You give me great publicity. You wanna help my cause, you go right ahead.”
Michael, “Shelley, I will promote you right into the penitentiary.”
I’m speechless. I wish I had the words! I’m sure I’ll find them for my blog. “Shelley, I will promote you right into the penitentiary.” Such a great and quick comeback to such a pompous and self-righteous statement, and I haven’t even seen part three.
If i ever see the guy tjat infected Brooke Ashly im gunna do what all those punk ass male porn dudes should have done. Fucking azz infecting all those people and nobody touched him . Dope fiends got more loyalty than u call urself men do…. But the again who gives a FUCK …pun intended