Shelley asked me to add this note to the video.
Dear loved ones,
I want you to know, I LOVE YOU. I am fighting hard for your safety, health and protection. I will never believe you have been placed on this earth to be a “porn star”. I know you are intelligent and beautiful and created for greater things. I want to make it clear that I am not out to hurt you but am on a mission to expose the truth about the porn industry and to see all of you receive better opportunities in life. I am working on getting grants to help those of you who want out and want to receive an education. I am fighting in DC. I am working night and day on your behalf. I really love you and believe in you.
Just wanted you to know my heart.
See you on June 29.
Please show up at the meeting and have your voice heard!
http://www.dir.ca.gov/dosh/DoshReg/5193Meetings.htm
Shelley
Shelley makes a few good and interesting points, along with stats that can not be necessarily connected with or blamed on porn (such as homicide and suicide) but in this presentation she makes no mention of what her specific intentions and solutions are.
Joe Know needs to learn Shelley’s point about verbal abuse.
I’ve always wondered why so many girls need drivers or “handlers” as she refers them as. Do they all not have driver’s licenses and know how to drive or are they just too high and fucked-up?
I also agree that doctors prescribing drugs for people who are taking drugs is problematic. I find it amusing that Shelley calls it “consipiracy” amongst doctors, a word Joe always brings up to mock the person who uses it.
Shelley makes no comparison to herpes in the general population versus porn.
She addresses the “incurable” diseases, but most diseases in most people are not life long. Anyone who has “had” chicken pox “has” herpes.
Again, when Shelley says “At the hands of the porn industry” she needs to specify what she’s blaming “the industry” for. In the past this has included her drug addiction problems. If someone on or off a porn set offers her drugs is “the industry” to blame?
Acts of violence, abuse and humiliation on the set. That certainly has occured. Shelley claims it’s
“never ending”. That is false.
She also claims that prostitution is worse than porn. How can she make this claim? The idea of a girl meeting someone she doesn’t know at some place she’s never been sounds scarier and potentially more dangerous or disturbing than performing on camera in front of others. Of course, if she’s getting Donkey Punched on camera, that’s a different matter.
She says photographers are also drug trafficers. She doesn’t say that some are. Again, she makes no distinction between the bad apples and all the apples. All pornographers are drug trafficers just like all pornographers are paedophiles.
Is syphilis “widespread” as she claims?
She says the porn industry does not require herpes tests. There are over 100 types of herpes, it would require that many tests.
She said 2 (not 1) people were killed by Steve Driver and then he killed himself. She apparently blames porn for mental case Steve Driver.
66% of all porn performers have herpes? Does she even have her facts straight?
Bless her heart for wanting to help, but by making porn even more stigmatized and “obscene” it would only lead to even more of what she’s lobbying against.
gee, i wonder what word(s) made my comment go on “moderator approval” status.
I watched about half of the video and asked myself serveral times during…if it was so bad as you say , why did you continue to participate?? These reformed born again types, make me question their true motives. I wonder if she shared one of her films with congress? probably not.
I’m sorry that Shelly’s life was as negatively impacted psychologically for her as it has been since her choosing to work as an adult actress, however I don’t think that it’s fair for her to assume that her experiences are the ONLY experiences one can have within “porn world”. I’ve had both good and bad experiences working in porn just as anyone does working in any field.
There are definitely areas of the adult video industry that need to undergo some major changes, however to say that the entire porn industry needs to disappear doesn’t make much sense. I think focusing on change rather than elimination is much more rational.
I also really don’t like how Shelly makes it sound as if ALL pornstars are drug addicts and incapable of taking care of themselves. I have never had, nor have I ever needed a “handler” and neither do many other women I’ve gotten to know within the porn industry.
Yes, some women in porn DO have total train wrecks of lives, however others don’t, and honestly many of the “pornstars” out there would STILL have train wrecks of lives even if they’d never entered the porn industry.
Adult entertainment is a legitimate business and I feel that Shelly really isn’t thinking about how what she wants to happen could really effect many people’s livelihoods – and that’s not right.
Much of my current livelihood has grown fro my work as an adult actress, webcam girl and exotic dancer. I have worked very hard and continue to work hard to work independently from home as an adult entertainer and being a single woman that is not easy.
I think Shelly is definitely trying to do good in this world, but I think her field of view is very narrow.
I appreciate the feedback you guys. Maybe next time they’ll give me more than ten minutes and I’ll squeeze some of the above in. (smile)
Shelly reminds me of the late Andrea Dworkin. Her speech to Congress was truly heartbreaking.
Monica,
Girl I love you and admire many things about you BUT you seriously contradict yourself. You wrote on your gettingintoporn site:
“There are many people claiming to be pornstar managers and agents (who are not) that advertise on adult industry job boards every day. MANY of these evil con artists have the goal of getting you in DEBT to them & ripping you off by taking more than 10% to 15% of your pay.”
Okay you said MANY twice and called MANY of these “evil con artists.”
You also wrote:
“The porn industry is full of both small time and incredibly successful illegal prostitution ring leaders.”
FULL OF? That’s strong wording.
One thing about me you should know. I DO MY HOMEWORK. Between your blog and your gettingintoporn site, it’s almost too easy to discredit you.
How about this Monica. Why don’t you debate me? I’m having a VERY difficult time getting anyone in the porn industry to have a public debate.
Let me know and we’ll schedule it.
I’m not looking to be credited or dis-credited and could really care less being that my blogs are about my experiences and feelings at those particular times in my life.
Maybe you always have the EXACT same stance and feelings but I sure don’t because I am growing and evolving day by day just as most people do who are open to becoming the best version of themself.
Yes, I do feel many agents in porn are con artists, however “many” does not mean “all”.
Furthermore “full of” does not mean “entirely”.
I’ll be glad to debate you Lubben after you do an interview with Julie Meadows, I heard she’s been trying to interview you for quite some time but you’ve consistently declined.
yawn. there’s plenty of people in shitty industries who could do with an advocate and they make far less money. and that’s the key, they’ve sacrificed a few things to use their pussy as a teller machine vs being a walmart greeter.
and no one wants to debate you, shelly, because they’re not interested in playing your attention seeking game.
fuck off and get a real job.
btw – that’s congress? looks like a k-12 in baltimore.
Monica, your point of view makes sense to me. I think that Ms. Lubben has chosen the opportunities on the other side, because she realized that sensation is provacative and profitable. Once a whore always a whore. She is perceived with a jaundiced eye. Also, in my opinion her “performance” before congress was pathetic.
I didn’t want to comment on this or any other Shelly Lubben related topics in the past few days, because commenting and paying attention to this jaded hearted, lying, psychopathic, treacherous sub-human parasite is exactly what she wants, that, and of course generous donations from crazy right wingers, lunatic white supremacists and religious nut jobs; but this has gotten too fucking ridiculous. Tell me whore, what do you exactly think you’ll achieve by talking to a bunch of corrupt politicians who are failing miserably everyday at handling issues that are far more dire and important than your morbid obsession with people fucking on film? The very fabric of America is falling apart, people lose their homes, their jobs and their life savings every day, two ongoing wars have crippled the American economy beyond anybody’s belief and expectations; and yet you’re busy playing your same old tricks and feeding your pathetic, sick financial and narcissistic obsessions and deluding yourself that people would give two shits about you dressing up as Pancho Villa at a porn convention or delivering a half-ass speech in front of the perverted politicians who film themselves while eating their pregnant girlfriend’s pussy and get caught up hiring gay prostitutes from rentboy.com.
You are a joke, Shelly Lubben, a bad, tired joke and you make me sick in my stomach. Go fuck yourself with an inverted cross.
Colonel, she really is a fake out. Her “tears” make me sick. A profiteer, whore for hire, and sadly she’s found a twisted group of idiots who want to listen to her tales of woe. These type play out and blow away…settle into trailers with the breeze blowin’ thru their crotch.
just curious???? is pink cross a 501(c) charity or a chairity at all? if so how much is your salary Shelly? if it’s a chairity then your income is public knowledge so then thier shouldn’t be a problem saying here??? I’m not trying to dis you.. I am actually curious.. you say you’re fighting for porn stars, but sweetie I educated myself and put myself thru school with porn..
Hmmmm just curious.. gonna have to read up on your foundation??? chairity?? company????
In fact Lee, I didn’t watch any of the clip, I didn’t need to. I know Shelly Lubben and her pathetic little games too well. Porn whores in compare to this despicable con artist have far more dignity and honesty. As for the twisted group of idiots who listen to her, they’re politicians, they get paid to play along these types of games and listen to this kind of bullshit. While everything else is failing and falling apart beyond their control, they need to put up these kinds of circus shows in order to entertain the masses and divert their attention from what’s robbing them from their rights and freedom. Shame.
I would still love to interview Shelley Lubben, absolutely! There are just so many questions. And I did ask for an interview and never got a response. I got a response to a post I wrote, but that’s not the same as an interview. An interview is better. You can see the interaction.
I know Monica and she is not a contradictory personality. Advice is advice. Saying there are people who will take advantage of you in an industry and to “watch out” is exactly what she means to do because there are people who want to get into the industry and enjoy aspects of it, the way Monica, herself, researched the industry and did what she wanted and enjoyed aspects of it. Monica is not an absolutist or an extremist, she’s just smart and has good advice. I’m shocked that you would criticize someone doing what you propose to be doing. Sharing information.
Julie,
You could interview me any time (((wink wink))) i enjoyed our first and last interview hehe.. Muaahh sweetie
Hey, that’s right! We did that photo shoot right in the beginning of my career. I hope you are doing well, despite the financial difficulties everyone is experiencing right now. 🙁
My prob with porn production and performing is and was staph. A staph infection can kill you, and can turn into a life long illness. I got staph during a bj scene, that went to my kidneys and almost killed me. I was on antibiotics for a week. finally it went away, or so I thought. It came back 6 months ago and almost 1500 dollars later with two visits to two diffrent doctors 6 months ago and 3 diffrent antibiotics since then. It did not go away this time, even after a visit to the emergency room. all you gotta do is say staph infection and the emergency room doctors put you at the head of the line, for the VIP treatment. So after 235 dollars and antibiotics, again it looks as if sergery is my last option. I have read that a couple of performers have died from this contagious desease. You never hear anyone except the performers whom have gotten it, talking about it. Its a horrible sickness, that makes people treat people whom have it, like lepers. I believe its dangerous, and contagious enough for the porn industry to be really concerned about it. Its also is disfiguring and leaves horible scars. Pluss the expense, pain and fever, thats associated with this, is not worth any fame or money that might be achieved from a porn shoot. Honestly, if I would have known about staph, I probably would never have made porn. The doctor at aim told me, for the rest of my life I could have an outbreak at any time, and sometimes the infection will become imune to the antibiotics, so I will need to take stronger and stronger antibiotics everytime a giant pimple erupts. Was making porn worth it for me? No!
mob?? are you seriously? its 2010 stupid cunt, who believe that stupid “mob” rhetoric?? this is not Russia you retarded slut, btw your should sue your hair stylist your hair looks like shit
Just got home at 4:14 am, hoo wee, hey Julie Meadows you keep rockin and rollin, please stop by this site more often. Shelley is duckin you because she knows she can’t take you. You the champ, baby.
It’s funny how Julie never shows up to the Calosha meetings or California state meetings. Hmmmm. If she’s so “rockin” why doesn’t she ever show up to anything? Hopefully she’ll be at the June 29 meetings. I know I’ll be there.
Julie meadows can interview me and has had many an opportunity at the porn conventions and hearings.
I am available June 29 after the Calosha meeting or I’ll be at Exxxotica July 10 at the Pink Cross booth. Julie and Monica please be there together so we can all do an interview/debate. My camera person will be filming it as well. And I’ll get some media to show up. I know Nightline is interested.
You may email info@shelleylubben.com to discuss further details if you need to, otherwise, see you June 29 or at Exxxotica.
PS: Monica, below is an interview I did with Julie Meadows on Mike South. She asked me questions and I answered. So, be sure to show up June 29 or July 10. You’re not going to hide behind Julie Meadows.
http://www.mikesouth.com/julie-meadows/questions-for-shelley-lubben-about-the-pink-cross-2959/
And Julie of course is still invited!
I personally think Shelly Lubben is a fake, but she did step up and call their bluff. Monica and Julie, what say you?
Hey Shelley, who is this “Joe Know” piece of shit? Is he affiliated with you? He said he was part Japanese, German and at least a couple of other mutt mixes. I’ll be looking out for him. Most Japanese who have English as a second language are literate enough to know that “know” should end with the letter “s” when following their name.
Also, why don’t you girls just debate Shelley here on LIB now? Whatever good points someone makes and trumps another with can be re-said at the OSHA meeting if you like. It’ll be good practice, at the very least.
No more online debates. I’ve been involved in plenty of those. I’m talking a PUBLIC debate where it’s filmed. Where the world can see it and people can’t hide behind computers.
FACE TO FACE.
Julie or Monica can contact me at info@shelleylubben.com
REPEAT: Hey Shelley!, do you know “Joe Know”? Is that piece of shit affiliated with you?
Well, even though I’m not a professional speaker, or debater (I’m much more of a writer), definitely don’t have nerves of steel, and am not fully educated on every mundane and trivial fact or figure that Shelley will most likely scream at me while shedding rehearsed tears at the same time, I’ve never been one to run and hide or wince from a challenge, so it’s on as far as I’m concerned.
I will request an outline of specifically what you want to debate and what topics you want to cover, however so I that I can at least be half way prepared.
On a side note, I actually think it’s really dumb and cowardly on Shelley’s part to request that I, debate her rather than one of the many other posters and industry figures who are for more seasoned within that adult entertainment industry than myself. Last time I checked Shelley was obsessed with Steve Hirsch who is many times over more successful, knowledgeable and seasoned than I am.
I started in porn only in March of 2008.
In terms that Shelley can relate to, this reminds me of David vs. Goliath – just keep in mind Shelley who won that fight and in this situation I’m the underdog – not yourself so be careful and think twice because I am definitely not the equivalent of debating Steve Hirsch.
This should be funny.
And one more thing Shelley, being that you’re enjoying this spotlight as much as you are, are you SURE that you want porn to go away? Because if it did, what else would you do in life because as of current being “anti-porn” is all you have going for you.
Oh, and if anyone wants to be my debate coach / prep person , give me a shout through my website – just click on “Contact”.
Monica, you are so awesome!!!
“And one more thing Shelley, being that you’re enjoying this spotlight as much as you are, are you SURE that you want porn to go away? Because if it did, what else would you do in life because as of current being “anti-porn” is all you have going for you.” Damn. I wouldn’t want to debate you.
That was a post on Mike’s site because you refused to do an interview with me. That was not an interview. And why will you never address me directly?
I’m shooting a documentary, so no Jeremiah, I’m not interested in any more online back and forth. Funny, but Shelley talks as if she’s the person who’s been waiting for me to come out and finally talk to her. I don’t go to hearings and conventions because I don’t work within the industry anymore beyond interviews and my writing. I’ve been to those conventions plenty of times as a performer, but I don’t perform and I’m not trying to get people to change their lives for me. There’s no reason for me to go.
Monica, do not step into one of her circus traps. You don’t get to decide where and when, Shelley. Be brave. I’m the one that asked for an interview. Monica does not hide behind me, she is my friend and knows that I still want to interview you. Why won’t you drop your façade and do a one-on-one interview? I decide the place. It’s a documentary, all conversations are intimate. It’s not about fighting, it’s about a logical conversation. You assume I’m going to attack you. Come on, “Christian” lady. Relax and have a heart.
P.S. – Thanks President. 😀
Jerry,
What kind of mutt are you? Or are you pure Aryan blood? Your blatant racis is disturbing. Funny how you try to deny it when debatinjg with Monica, but your true colors are showing with this statement. Now try to deny what you just said, midget.
The bottom line to debating Shelley is pointing out that she tends to say or imply “all” when it comes to attacking pornographers. Drug use, homicide, suicide and STDs are blamed on pornographers. But drug use is independent of porn, and abuse within porn at worst is the fault of specific individuals, not the industry as a whole. Drug use is responsible for immune suppression which is what leads to disease. Every healthy human body has virus, germs and bacteria. A famous retrovirologist said the virus is nothing and the host is everything. Sex in one’s private life is a potential hazard and sex as a profession is a potential occupational hazard, but there is no way to make either entirely “safe”. I am of the opinion that no legislative entity has the right to force condom use because 1. it does not guarantee protection, regardless and 2. it violates the right of free choice between consensual adults and the demands of the majority of consumers who prefer bareback over rubbers.
I think its a little disturbing that Shelly insists that prostitution is “better” than porn. Most do not get dinner, most are underaged girls running away from home, desperate and already consumed by many vices.
I wonder why someone that cares about women so would say such a vile thing. How many Porn actresses are rapped and murdered a year? How many prostitutes are killed, raped, Overdose, go missing and die violent deaths.
I also take offense to saying Porn is like slavery… you had a choice to do porn, for you obviously it was the wrong choice.
I think shelly needs to take a lesson from the XXXchurch on how to help give Christian love and support those in the sex industry. They actually go out and help instead of help people further stigmatize and destroy all hope of “normal” lives for those in the adult industry.
I am a mutt of German, Austrian and Irish descent, Joe. Make sure you introduce yourself to me at the OSHA meeting and we can talk more about it.
As usual you are completely clueless as to who I am and where I’m coming from.
@slubben – What kind of weird antagonistic delusions do you live in? An interview and a debate are two entirely different things…why does it always have to be a debate? Do you just like to fight with people to create controversy? I still think it is funny how you start your responses with things like “Girl I love you” and then right before the end of your statements you always throw in some kind of really derogatory slam at the person. I really think you have some deep emotional problems. Why can’t it just be a conversation where you express your opinions, unless your point is to convert everyone else to your beliefs in order to validate them? I read the Mike South post. There was no interview. You posted some response to Julie’s article that was full of pre-rehearsed statements that really didn’t address anything. Most of it didn’t make any logical sense. I remember your comments being ripped to shreds, and even pink cross members responded agreeing that some of your statements didn’t make any sense or seemed to be coming from a perspective you weren’t admitting too, once the lack of logic in your statements was pointed out. And let me stress again that being addicted to fighting porn…is still being addicted to porn.
Julie, on the other hand, doesn’t really appear to be either pro or anti porn, just pro or anti specific aspects of porn. Julie isn’t active in the industry anymore in any capacity other than writing some blogs and doing some interviews that are adult themed and appearing as a past performer in some recent PSA’s. Why would she want to go to CALOSHA meetings or porn industry events? Unike you, she has an entire life outside of her porn past. What would she gain by going to these events? What exactly do you gain by going to these events? Either you can’t stand to leave porn, or you are trying to “convert the natives.” Why do you still dress and make yourself up to look like a porn star? Do you just need the attention to feel special? Does it come from the exact same psychology that drove you into porn to begin with? No matter how hard you fight porn, you’re never going to be able to change the fact that you had sex on film for money.
If Barbara Walters asked you for an interview, would you respond by challenging her to some type of public debate? I don’t think so. Why exactly are you so scared to do an interview unless it is some kind of public debate? Why make enemies with someone who is trying to give you the opportunity to express your opinions? In the end, you just don’t believe the crap you preach…that is why you are always so defensive. Nobody who is as compassionate as you profess to be would make the kind of cunt like, nasty comments you make toward people, trying to hide them in the middle of some kind of sticky sweet insincere complements. You remind me of John Wayne Gacy. On the outside, you put on a bunch of makeup to hide yourself and try to put on a facade of being some type of exceptional humanist, but on the inside your about as fucking evil as they come. Anyone who takes a really close look at what you write, and the passive aggressive tendencies you can’t quite hide when you talk to people, can see you are a mean and manipulative person down to your core. I would feel more comfortable being stranded alone in a knife factory with Charles Manson, than I would be to ever have my back turned to you for a second!!!
Julie, please email info@shelleylubben.com to interview me publicly and it will be filmed by my crew as well so that way we have the WHOLE footage. I’m not a dumb woman.
I’m a nice lady Julie. I’m not out to hurt anyone. But like I said, I’m on a mission to expose the lies of the porn industry. Once the lies are out of the way and people can have a real chance to experience the Truth, millions of people can get real healing from porn. Including you and Monica!
Now, be a big girl and email me at info@shelleylubben.com
Misty,
I am truly sorry you had to go through so much because of porn. It sounds extremely painful and life threatening. I’m thankful you reminded me about Staph. It’s hard to keep up with everything that goes on in the porn industry because honestly it’s just pure insanity. But I would love to understand more about Staph and the damage it causes.
I know of one porn star who died of staph. He’s on my dead porn stars memorial at http://www.youtube.com/slubben
This is why we try to bring as much education as possible to the porn conventions about stds and other consequences because no one is really educating or warning the women and men on a level they take seriously.
I REALLY DO CARE ABOUT YOUR LIVES. I CARE SO MUCH I’M WILLING TO DO JUST ABOUT ANYTHING TO HELP YOU SEE THE TRUTH.
How many more people have to suffer or die before you’ll wake up?
God help them. Touch them all right now in Jesus name and visit them with truth, love and mercy.
Just as one example, did you notice how just around 4:20 in the video she uses “they” when talking about porn actresses; “They hate making porn” and then uses “we” when talking about prostitution; “Porn stars are prostitutes. ‘We’ make a lot more money and do a lot less work” and “at least with prostitution ‘we’ get a dinner sometimes.” She makes the switch pretty consistently. Is it a subconscious thing, or is she still involved in prostitution? Just seems bizarre to me that she uses “they” for porn stars and “we” for prostitutes fairly consistently.
You are so condescending.
You’re film crew can film, too, but I will not meet you at those public places. It must be an intimate place, and I’ll pay for the location. I need an interview, not a yelling match, so try to drop the defensiveness. I don’t need healing from you, I need an exchange of thoughts. This is not an intervention.
You can also email me at: julie@juliemeadows.com
A lot of people are doing the same thing you’re doing through their own means. I don’t understand your having to fight everybody.
I just sent you an email and got an auto-reply soliciting money for the organization and instruction to send interview inquiries to a different email address. Am I getting the runaround?
When you work as a prostitue, its usually the pimp who gets most of the money.
When you work in porn, it is a corperation(VIVID, HUSTER, Zero Tolerance etc,) who get most of the money.
In prostitution, its a one and done, take the money and run.(then give it to your pimp)
In porn, the corperation continues to make money off of you long after you leave the set. Thats called exploitation.
Regarding conventions and events like that….Has anyone noticed that AIM has not been at a single convention or trade show for several years now? Hmmmm.
Does anybody here care to take a guess why,…..Jerry?
“No other industry has these kinds of statistics” What? Ever heard of “going postal’? The United States Post Office has had worse statistics than the murder / suicide in porn. The Catholic Church has worse statistics molesting young boys. Spanish Inquisition. Jim Jones. Religion has substantially worse statistics overall. What about the U.S. Military? College campuses? The U.S. / Mexican border has worse statistics lately.
Do you think Sandra Bullock drove herself to the Oscars, or did she have a driver? I’ve heard of CEO’s for blue chips stocks that have “handlers” so they can focus on their job and someone else can focus on logistics fo getting the CEO from meeting to meeting.
Making shit up, or just throwing around some random numbers is not making a statistical comparison. A statistic as compared to a group of 20 to 24 year olds. WTF? 66% of porn performers have Herpes. Well, every piece of research I can find says that 50-80% of the United States population has Herpes. 65% would be the median of that range which would put porn at no higher or less risk than anyone else. If she said that porn performers were at a much higher risk of getting laid, that might make some sense. But these other numbers don’t mean a damn thing when not compared to some type of norm.
Cocain,
AIM alon has reported over 3000 cases of gonn/chlam in the past four years. And that just AIM. Too bad we cant get the Talent Testing Service numbers, and West Oaks Urgent Care numbers.
And there is a reason that AIM doenst do comprehensive testing for herpes, trichomonis, HPV, or any other communicable disease. That is becuase they would,by law, be required to report it to the County Health Dept. And the last thing the industry wants is a comprehensive record of all of these std’s. THey didnt even start testing for gonn,chlam on a regular basis until 2003. It is the same reason the gay industry does not ahve a comprehensive program, becuase the numbers would be staggering.
Here is a question that AIM will NEVER answer…How many performers in the industry for more than six months have contracted an std??? They will NEVER EVER answer this question.
I emailed Lubben requesting an outline of topics and issues for the “debate”. I received an autoresponder message as well – still waiting on an actual reply.
I don’t know, but we may be wasting our time here. I need an interview for my documentary and she said she is not interested in an interview for my documentary. I think she’s afraid of a one-on-one interview. Last year I needed the interview for my “On The Couch With Lydia Lee”. No matter what, I’m not going to get this interview. She needs a larger media arena and I still have never heard of her as a porn star. This gig is obviously better for her exposure than being a prostitute and “porn star”.
If you debate her, I’ll show up for that and film it. I’ll help you prepare, too.
In fact, here is my response to her refusal, even though I am offering to pay for the location and let her film crew shoot alongside mine:
You’re afraid of being out of your attention-hungry element. I need the interview for the documentary. If you can’t give me a one-on-one for the documentary, if you can’t sit with me reasonably and have an adult conversation without hiding behind blatant attacks, skewed statistics and the horde of mindless people who follow you, then your intentions are not good. Any well-intentioned person would just agree to talk.
I think you may very well be worse than porn because you open a door away from an industry that states pretty frankly what the exchange is, and usher these people through new doors where the lies aren’t as easy to pinpoint, where the manipulations are deeper and the intention is far worse. Religion is just as corrupt as any other organization. It’s still about making money, it’s still about getting something for something. I guess you continue to do yourself up like a porn star to show that all the glamour is in being at The Pink Cross? In being a Christian? I try to help the viewers have more compassion for the people they watch and fantasize about because not all porn stars want to be “saved”. Not all of the companies are corrupt. You don’t even isolate certain people and corporations, you attack everyone. You’re obviously biased and out for your own gain. I still don’t know who you are as a “porn star”.
I still would like to interview you, but I’m not going to play into your game because despite what you say, you don’t love me, you don’t love Monica, and you don’t love porn stars. You are rude and condescending. Everyone can see that.
I don’t hate you, I’m not mad at you, I just want an interview. The same kind of interview I conduct with everyone else.
I don’t go to these events because I don’t need that kind of attention. I consider myself an artist. I write, I interview people, I am making a documentary. Everything is presented the way it plays out. Shelley is the one that whores herself to the media and edits her videos in her favor. (Although I do like it when she’s racist and makes herself look crazy. That is, at least, honest.) Any malicious person can do that, but my intentions are not malicious. I call it like I see it and she is scared.
It makes me ill to see her write about “truth”. Take off all the makeup and strip yourself down past the accusations and then talk about truth. Who are the drug trafficking pornographers? That’s slander. Who are the mob members? I know prostitutes who would debate you on whether or not being a porn star is better. I know prostitutes would debate you on getting a guaranteed meal. You are so weird.
P.S. – I meant to write “no matter what I’m not going to get this interview.”
Hay so My question never got answered shelley… I’m seriously interested.. how much did your foundation make last year? where does the money gp? How much salary does the foundation pay you a year? All this is public record if you are a 501(c) but i figured I would ask you..
I’m a porn star!!! have been for over 12 years..
HHHM mmm joe knows is dreamin again.. thats right !!!! he’s not in the industry!!!!! hay joe knows dick.. testing has been required since I sttarted in the industry in 97′ you fuckin moron and thew test have been the same minus the coming online of PCR DNA.. you’re an idiot and your facts are worng.. thier smart guy…
She’s intimidated by you Julie – period.
I received a response from Shelley – in my initial email I requested an outline of the specific topics and/or issues she’d like to debate so that I can prepare.
I don’t consider that unreasonable at all – in fact considering that I’m going out of my way to even bother with her should be enough – but oh no – not for Lubben.
I received a response stating that she wants to discuss MY work and that she simply doesn’t provide outlines as to what she wants to debate.
Has this woman not ever researched what a debate truly is and how a debate works – as far as I know the debaters know what it is that they are debating rather than going in blind.
From what I can tell, Lubben doesn’t want to debate me, she wants to attack me – and that’s not nice. Since when do true Christians think that a public stoning nowdays is the Christian way?
This is an example in my eyes of a woman who’s very “stuck” in life and who hasn’t matured into a true adult possibly due to her constant rehashing of events which happened in her life around a decade ago.
Furthermore why can’t Lubben agree to Julie’s interview in a quiet setting? Why is it so vital that she has major or minor media press at all times? I personally don’t think she can even handle the “fame” that she’s so desperately chasing.
@joe know: At least your statements are geared a bit more towards some type of resolution or goal…reducing STD’s in the adult industry. How about lets try to reduce STD’s in society? But again, you can’t just throw numbers around without any meaning. 3,000 cases, or 3,000 people? 3,000 out of how many? Were some of these cases the same person having been retested, still showing positive, or 3,000 separate people who tested positive? 30 people, being tested twice a month for 4 years, never being cured would produce the same numbers. Wow, 30 people over 4 years, that doesn’t sound too bad at all, does it? That is probably better than the L.A. Unified School District. How many cases of STD’s do you think there have been in 4 years with students of LA Unified? How does your proposed numbers compare to the rest of society, why not give me those numbers. How many cases have there been in the gay community in the past 4 years? How many cases in Beverly Hills? Your point about AIM holds true for the general population as well, many won’t get tested in anything other than an anonymous setting for exactly the same reason, so that distorts the true figures across the board, not just in porn.
“Here is a question that AIM will NEVER answer…How many performers in the industry for more than six months have contracted an std??? They will NEVER EVER answer this question.”- And the U.S. Govt doesn’t say how many Congressmen contract an STD within 6 months of taking office, either, nor does the NBA, or NASA, or the Catholic Church about their priests. How many new performers already had an STD before coming into the industry? How many of the 3,000 cases above were new talent, taking their first test, in anticipation of doing their first ever scene…and coming up positive. How many rock stars get an STD in the first 6 months of leaving on their first world tour? How many people were virgins before shooting their first scene on camera??? How many performers were forced to get into porn against there will?
Please hire some scientists or economists to teach you how to present statistical analysis in a meaningful way. People who can’t prove their claims with statistical fact, often just throw around numbers they think sound impressive but don’t really mean shit.
85% of all U.S. parents force their children to get Herpes, a non-curable disease, so that the initial infection happens at a time that is convenient for the parents and gets it out of the way. Sounds dramatic doesn’t it, especially since it is true. But without further explanations and clarifications, it really doesn’t mean a damn thing. Many of you take numbers and statements like above and then try to spin it in fallacious ways like this: 85% of parents force their kids to get Herpes, and 66% of porn performs have Herpes, therefore it is a shame that the porn industry can’t get these kids away from their parents sooner, since parenting is killing society by promoting incurable diseases.
If you guys want to debate Shelley, I think you should meet her on her own terms. There is a gaping hole in her argument that cannot be distorted: YOU CHOOSE TO DO WHAT YOU DO. As long as you can stand by that fact, you will be vindicated.
Screw debates. Debates are like sport matches with both sides trying to score points. There is truth to both sides of the Porn Argument. Why can’t all parties just sit down to discuss the problems and troubleshoot solutions?
Coke,
I appreciate your very rational and well thought out response.
The dffference here is that these diseases are being transmitted in the workplace, not in private life. NOBODY is advocationg mandatory condoms for ‘civilians” in their private lives, as some here arugue, incorrectly i might add.
The issue I am taling aobut here is the producers(employers) taking their legal resposibilities for illness and injuries that occur in their workplace.
The porn argument is….everybody knows the risk, and is resonsible for their own decisions…..I FULLY AGREE…Every producer knows the risk that he is putting his employees at, and as the entitiy that is creating this specific risk, for those specific performers, in his speicific workpace, the producer is the one resopnsible for the injuries and illness that result from the perfromers doing what he, the producer, paid them to do.
This has nothing to do with what happens in anybody’s private bedroom. It is a workplace safety issue.
There is a reason that Steve Hirsh says,,,Nobody works on our sets without an AIM test…..That is becuase he knows the risks that HIS perfromers are taking. What happens in the workplace is the resposibility of the EMPLOYYER,,,not the employee.
ANd the argument that other things are also dangerous is no excuse. Two wrongs dont make a right.
Oregin1, that is what is going to happen at the osha hearings, every side gets to state their case. My opinion is that the industry threat to leave the state, is not going to convince the health officials that they should ignore the health risks in favor of tax revenue.
Origen01, I also agree with “YOU CHOOSE TO DO WHAT YOU DO” If you are a producer who chooses to hire people to take a risk, then you are responsible for makeing that decision to put people at risk>
Why does everyone in porn seem to forget that the producers also CHOOSE to do whay they do? NOBODY has ever answered my question …”Why should porn producers not be accountable for THIER decision to put people at risk? It is being done for the producers to make profit. If you hire someone to take risks with their health so YOU can make a profit, then you ahve to be accoutable for the conse
Nobody is forced to be a porn producer. That is their choice. Every choice has consequences. Injury and disease is a well known risk, as everyone here says, we all know the risks..
If i hire somone to work my pritnig press, and he gets his finger cut off in the machine, “I” am resposible for that workplace injury. I dont get to say,,,”He knew the machine was dangerous, so I dont have to pay.”
The staandard porn ‘line’ of not being resposible has been shoved down performer throat(along with other things) for years. Now is the first time they are going to have to “sell” their esxcuses to legal authorities, not just uninformed porn stars.
No one WANTS to debate Lubben from what I can tell Origen, which is why I doubt few if any people have.
Lubben is the one who proposed the initial challenge (see comment #10). I feel she did it only because she has issues with criticism. It’s evident at this point that she doesn’t want to truly “debate” anyone – she just wants to attack and demonize others due to her own frustrations in life which I don’t think she’s taken the time to properly work through.
We all have issues – and we all have our soap box that we stand on from time to time – however if a person’s view becomes too narrow, stagnant and if the only color palette they can see life in is black and white then something is seriously wrong with their mindset.
I’ve argued on other threads on this forum/blog about racism. Sometimes I’m passionate and angry over the issues, other times indifferent – however though I may lash out from time to time, I still enjoy hearing other’s views and I know that everyone is entitled to their own way of thinking, and if I don’t agree, then hey – I simply don’t agree and I move on in life.
When I find something, specifically a system, that is flawed, I’ll analyze and if possible, discuss the flaws and propose changes – however if in the end I’m not happy I’ll work on creating and building my own system of which works for me – that’s how progress is made in life.
Now I will definitely “debate” this woman – because I think it’ll be an interesting experience and I’m not afraid of or intimidated by her. Even though in reality I know it’s simply going to come down to her attacking me and my views, demonizing me, telling me that I’m a horrible person, telling me “God loves me” (most likely she’ll cry a bit and victimize herself), and lets not forget how she’ll “discredit” me because I’ve changed my mind on issues from time to time.
Since Lubben needs to have a “face” to yell at and attack (on camera of course) to make herself feel better and important, then that’s fine with me, because I pity her. This little exercise she wants to do MIGHT actually help her on her road to recovery from what happened to her so long ago that she can’t let go of.
I enjoy learning about people and what makes them tick, and Lubben is a fascinating case, because she’s managed to not take any personal responsibility for events that traumatized her in her youth at ALL. It’s all the porn industry’s fault.
I found the nightline special Lubben was recently on very interesting, primarily due to Christy Canyon’s interview because though Canyon and Lubben both are around the same age, and were in the same field at one time (porn), Canyon has developed and matured enough psychologically to take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY for her choices in life where as Lubben wants to blame everyone and everything except for herself for her regrets.
You’re totally right Origen – working in porn is all about personal choice and the more deeply I meditate on that the more I’m coming to realize that some of my own concerns even about the industry are based on selfish desires.
OK I read you blog for both Pink cross and Shelley lubben and I have to tell you. I’m in the industry and have been in the industry longer then you ever were and I have real issues with some of your stats and claim..
Sweet heart.. seem’s like you were quite fucked up before you ever got into porn. then it seems like you just even went further south. Porn didn’t force drugs down your throat. Porn did’nt force you to bring home johns and trick em out of your house with you little girl at home..
Those decisions were all yours.. you fucked up and a whole lot it would appear before porn even becaME KNOWn to you and before you “chose” to engage in porn. CDC reports something like 1 out of 4 between ages 15 and 15 have herpes… so you want a cookie because you have some random number from aim. Lets not forget that AIM gives numbers in total!!! not stars and then others.. you are reporting AIM has said 25 cases of HIV among stars since 2004 and that is a flat out lie from what I hear.. sure the # is 25 but it’s stars and civilian..
I’m a star!!! and sweetie from wwhat I have read on YOUR OWN BLOG.. you DO NOT speak for me, and by the response from people iu now in the industry “you do not speak” for many. A great deal of people in the industry DO NOT agree with you or with what you say.
Tell the truth and that is that you sspeak for YOURSELF… you are not OUR savior.. I agree full panel testing should be Mandatory.. I think OSHA is a joke… they go on sets and look for UL ratings on lights.. they are as stupid as the govenor in office right now..
However, i do now see that PINK CROSS is in fact a 501(c)(3) chairity.. you sure as fuck didn’t pay for my education.. gotta wonder wwhere that money goes.. and so where is you supposed support for male stars or is this a womens ONLY association.. but then again you say you are speaking for “all stars” as If… LOL
Sweet heart I think you make a pretty pennie off of saying you speak for stars and fight for our health, but all you yell is condom … Why are’nt you voulenteering your time to LAPD as a prostitute decoy since you know the profession.. hmmmmm?????
You know I have shot over 700 or so scenes and I have never seen a girl force fed drugs, threatened to be hurt if she doesn’t work, or have I seen a girl be thretened with a gun or other weapon to make her fuck me or another co-worker.. In fact I know many many many people men and women in the industry that don’t even do drugs..
where are those stats…
I think being a drug user and spreading your legs for cash was just in your nature thier sweetie… i think you’re parents were to busy busy with thier own lives and made some bad choices regarding your upbringing and it allowed you the time and possibility to go out and fuck up on your own.
Good for you that you are happy and healthy.. I’m saddened by the fact that is has been how long since you shot a movie?? and you are the one speaking for stars… how many movies did you shoot? how long were you in? All i see is that you keep saying you were a star.. but I know girls that claim that shit all the time and they have never even shot a movie…
I would 120% say porn is safer then hookin as far as a physical threat is conceraned.. I have yet to see a girl ever be beat, punched, or murdered on set. I have never seen a girl raped, bitch slapped, or any of that on a set. You’re words try to make porn into a free for all, which it is not.
maybe you were just so high with the drugs YOU took that you are confusing the TRICKS YOU pulled and the “real” porn sets you were on. Are thier shady ass fools that claim they shoot porn and some agents buy it and send girls.. yep thier sure are.. So, it takes a girl being smart and knowing what she is doing..
Maybe that didn’t work for you because you were fucked off on drugs.. Blaming “your” bad choices on porn is a joke though. It would seem you were making “bad choices” a long time before you ever got into porn thier Shelley… is thier shit that needs to be cleaned up in porn? Yep your damn skippy thier is.. are you gods utinsle for that change?? who knows … the lord works in mysterious ways…
I reacon stars would think better of you if we knew you were’nt making a living off saying you are fighting for us. As the industry gets more fucked financially and stars are even more fucked financially I guess you are making a bigger stink and making more money..
now how does that loook…. I would love to see a list of stars that you have helped financially with the donations your foundation has collected.. Now those are real numbers I and many would be interested in.. remember one thing Shelley… God aint to forgiving on baring false witness….
Sure you’re a missionary and all, but sweetie I grew up in the church.. my pastor was on 700 club weekly back in the day. I met and have known jim and tammy faye, oral roberts, kieth greene and others since i was a kid… and the fact is my pator (andd four other pastors from our church) were busted for embezzelment, jim is in jail for embezzelment, and oral roberts ?????
Only time will tell which side you end up on, but you sure are making money and traveling on the backs of stars right now are’nt you??? has it begun????
You know I have proof I been yelling full panel and in very real ways “WHILE” i was in the industry… it’s a little fishey that you start doing it after you leave the industry.. The funny part is the solution is so in the clear and with a fatal swipe this whole game would come under federal regulations, but you and all your drone can’t even see it..
The state of california has no interest in fucking off the industry, cause the state of california makes to much off of the fuckin industry.. and the politicians of california and the entire US are getting serviced by many of the girls in the fuckin industry.. LOL..
OSHA SMOSHA … Waxmen has been trying for a minute to put a hurtin on the industry, and hasn’t made a difference, but you think congress giving you 10 minutes is gonna ????? I think the statement “you dont speak for many of us, you speak for yourself and your own self serving agenda” speaks for it’s self…
So now that I am transittioning out of the industry, I’ll expect a check for education, and transition funding thank you… it’s on your site… put up or shut up…
And your reperations check will be sent out soon too.
Happy fathers day Justin.
PS I will debate you any day of the week on many front… 1.) drug’s and the industry 2.) girls being forced to work 3.) agents and directors are drug dealers (LOL) 4.) porn killing stars 5.) condoms and the industry
Lets do it… I have no fear.. at least the world would here it from an actual star… name the place and time… I will be in LA on the 29th but have to be in a “real” court of law so can’t do the week ass OSHA meeting… WHy DC Shelley, why not the state capital… ?????
You are transitioning out of the industry. You and hundreds of others who are no longer getting any work becuase of the econimic downturn. You say that like you had the choice to leave or not. Hundreds of others with no work are also “transitioning” out of the idustry.
ANd Justin, you probably wont beleive it, but i aplogize for the smart ass coment above.#60. It was completely out of line. WHen I am wrong, I admit it.
p.s. Justin, AIM used to offer job training scholarships to people leaving the industry. But they spent all their money defending producers, so theres no money left for the performers. Funny thing is, it was the perfromers money they spent to help producers, to hell with you performers.
Justin, just think, everytime you spent your 120 dollars at AIm ahs to add up to a pretty nice little chunk of money….then they spent it defending producers. AND YOU HAVE THE NERVE TO QUESTION WHERE THE 501C3 MONEY FOR THE PINK CROSS I GOING. Look where YOUR money went, certainly not to benenfit theh performers. LO effing L
Joe, producers SHOULD be held accountable for injuries incurred on their sets. I think the majority of “industry spokesmen” would be forced to agree with that. But, frankly, the emphasis remains with performers. Its the performers who are performing the act while the production companies turn the performance into content. So while the behavior of producers is influential in an economic sense, the behavior of performers matter much more in the case of injuries & STDs. Bottom line: unless performers are more educated about STDs and the safety of various sexual acts, change would be very difficult.
Really, I hear what you’re saying joe and there must be practical steps to reduce STD transmission and recreational drug use (which I might observe is in decline–but that’s just me). I think you can find a consensus there.
Well, change would be very difficult unless you want to effectively ban porn in one fell swoop. Then change is easy…
Hey Justin, you mentioned Rep. Waxman trying to put a hurt on the industry. Just curious. I’ve always liked Waxman from what I know of him and have no idea what you’re talking about. More info pleez…
Directly from the AIM website.
OUR MISSION
A non-profit coporationd created to care for the physical and emotional need of sex workers and the people who work in the adult industry. Through our HIV and STD testing antd threatment, our counseling, and support group oprograms we are happy to be servint the sex worker community. OPur goal is to provide health care for the body, nimd emotion and spirit, as well as to take a leadershiip position in promoting safe and responsible sexual behavior, not only for the adult industry, but for everyone.
Can anybody tell me how spending performer money to protect producers, and lobbying for NO CONDOMS, has anything to do with this MISSION.
Support groups,,,not any more..no money.
Testing, you pay yourself,
Treatment, you pay yourself.
And then your money goes to protect producers.
How does advocating no condoms for sex workers jive with ‘promoting safe and responsible sexual behavior”?
It should say
OUR MISSION
To fleece perfromers out of money in order to create n illusion of sexual safety. Our goal is to provide financial assistance to producers, to inusre that they do not have to take resposibilites for their perfromers. As well as to take a leadership roll in giving disinformation to performers about their legal rights as workers, and to have them sign illegal waivers to make the performers believe they have waived those rights. We protect the wallets, bank accounts, and emotional stability of producers, who may be suffering during this economic downturn.
Well said ORIGEN01.
But it is the industry that is not willing to compromise, or take ANY responsibility for the disease that their industry causes.
The performers are doing the acts,,correct,,,,but at the behest and under the direction of the producer, for the financial benenfit of not only themselves, but the producer as well. The PRODUCER is the one who dictates to the director what type of content and which acts he wants in his film.
Another misconception,,,,,it is not the ‘performers’ free speech here,,,,their performance is a reflection of the producers desired ‘speech’.
ORIGEN01 I also like who you said that most producers would be FORCED to agree with this. You hit the nail right on the head there. And soon they will be forced to.
Well Joe, I just have to say that porn directors often have a set of sexual acts they would like to see talent perform but often the performer is of a like mind to perform them. Again, there is an economic incentive to perform the acts but performers are willing to perform them. Its the WILLINGNESS to perform dangerous acts that have to change. This is not slavery on set, man.
Again, I think we’re in agreement. And even though a lot of producers are in willful denial, the quintessential element of porn is sexual fantasy. Disease is not part of that fantasy–so there are many people who would want things to change.
Porn’s an easy do-gooder target because it’s OUT THERE.
Instead, kindly deliver from evil those entrenched in the actual, seamier side of life: high school girls plotting “pregnancy pacts” and young boys raped with broom handles. College students comprising the epidemic level STD rates. Children destroyed by assorted priests, preachers, and pedophiles. The mentally ill and addicted cast into oblivion in lieu of unattainable health care; et al.
Improper parenting, drug use, mental and physical illness, and financial distress configure in all walks of life but does that mean call for mass sterilization instead of condoms?
After reading all this you are clearly getting the runaround Julie, just as you said. Shelly is only looking for a media circus and some public spectacle and not an intimate interview because she only has something to lose and nothing to personally gain there. She’s all about “what’s in it for me.” It’s perfectly clear.
Coke,
Rock stars dont get STDS while performing jobs for their employers. They get them in their personal lives, that have NOTHING to do with getting diseases in the workplace.
And about all the new perfromers testing positve BEFORE they ever work,,,,,you are absolutely correct, this indeed does happen, and those positive results can skew the statistics. BUT, I see yu also FAIL to mention the performers who to Talent Testing Service and Dr. Riggs and other urgent care facilities. YOU obviously know a little more than most here about the stds, so why did you fail to mention the well known industry practice of goint to West Oaks between your monthly AIM tests if you fell that “little itch” down there.
Alot of posters here are comparinig stds in the general public and private lives, to the stds in the workplace of porn. You are comparing apples to oranges. There are lots of bad things in the world, does that mean you give up and do nothing to fix any of them?
The OSHA board could care less about your private sex lives. Porn workers are not having “private, in the home” sex. They are doing it for the financial benefit of someone else, in a workplace. Funny who so many of you just continue to ignore this.
Just as funny as how Cocaine Incorp tries to downplay the stats with the standard industry line about first time testers, but fails to mention the ‘standard industry practice” of testing at other facilites where the ‘porn’ connection is not recognized by the health department. A good try, but under closer scrutiny, it just doesnt hold up. AIM and Mitch have been saying this for years, and most perfromers belive it. But when AIM and Mitch try to sell this to the legal authorities it aint going to fly.
there’s nothing to be gained by debating the shelly lubbens of the world. they only exist through the oxygen others give them.
cindi being a prime example, she has issues with me being snarky in comments, but has no problem giving air to a divisive fraud like lubben, because she derives website hits from her.
Yep. The runaround. Bummer.
LOL joe knows yes I dare ask where money from the pink cross is going because it’s is money donated in the name of stars supposedly to help stars.. Money that stars give to AIM is for a “service” no matter what you say or think we pay and they take test and give us results..
just like they do for civilian but civilian pay more..
So your damn right I question where pink crosses money goes..
Further more Joe as far as not having work .. LOL you are fucking completely lost son.. I was working to the tune of thousends just 2 1/2 months ago, and left of my own accord.. when i took my stand LATM had to cancel thousands of dollars of work that was booked for me..
I like your fantasy though.. do your homework Joe.. sean, marcus, byron, lee bang, pretty much all black male talent will tell you I was one of the most shot black stars in the world Until I “Chose” to leave.. LOL.. make no mistake If i chose to go back to shooting today, I could and have assurances from several companies that they would be happy to have me back and want me bacck as it stands now..
LOLOL.. me not working is by “choice” thier smart guy… it has become entirely to risky..
maybe you should do your homework on me thier joe.. As far as std’s and testing.. I would love to know what secret documents you have seen (as you talk about jeremy) because I have seen no proof from you that AIM is handing checks to producers or thier attornies..
I personally think AIM is paying thier own attornies and I knoow they Paid darren james in an out of court settlement becuase they gave up his name while dealing with the whole 04′ ordeal..
Wheres your proof????/ I wanna see
Testing in my mind should be full panel period!!!!
I have not only yelled this for 5 years but I have made documented steps to try to make it happen.. but it is a loosing batttle.. true enough producers and companies stand to loose to much..
As far as condoms???? it’s a performers choice… Vivid mandated condoms and as soon as they let talent decide for themselves, the overwhelming majority chose to NOT use condoms.. So who is Shelley Lubben or you for the matter to tell talent that they no longer have a right to chose wether they use condoms or not?????
It’s not your choice is the answer, and Shelley Lubben is a long gone has been… it’s none of her business.. it’s the talents business.. half of the talents go out with each other anyway.. So in the past I should had had to wear a condom when I did a scene with my ex or the ex before her for that matter that was talent also..
Thats absurd, because when we go home we are’nt wearing protection.. LOL
thats the same case with many in the industry.. we date each other.. we fuck each other off camera just the same as on.. So whats next, everyone in the world should be mandated to wear a condom when having sex.. or is this just porn stars???
If the state regulates then so be it, we’ll just shoot out of the country.. then california, florida, and all the other porn friendly shooting states will just loose the fuckin taxes.. is that the master plan.. do you think californmia or LA could afford porn moving to florida or NY .. some say it’s already happening because of stupid shit in cali and ass raping taxes… dont forget america was founded thru treason and because of high taxation….
Jeremy ——
Waxman – is a key player in california for making porn use condom only.. search for the articles on the web..
Ok let me get this straight, everybody is crazy except Her,ummm……….yeah. And she wants to eat dinner @ work.
Thanks Justin. I didn’t know that. Been kinda busy, will look that up. Oh well. I like most of Waxman’s efforts, but those dirty politicians need to keep their hands off my cock.
Joe knows not even a month ago you were arguing siting porlaws comments that porn is not a workplace and companies cant be held liable for work related issues such as discrimination against color, and race.. so now you are saying porn sets are a worrk place and porn is bonified work and companies can be held liable..
make your fuckin mind up.. Me I have been stead fast.. close friends of mine have heard me say it for many years, that HIV infection could be traced to the root person and thus could be traced back to the scene and if in fact that scene was shot for a company that does payroll then in fact the stars on that set are in fact employees as the company is taking taxes out of thier check.
So which is it joe???? are companies bound by OSHA as you argue???? because if they are (which I know they are) then they are also bound by equal oppurtunity employment and subject to employment law, which would make it ILLEGAL for a company to have contract employees that refuse to work with people on basis of color and race!!!
Shall we start diggin into Steve hirsch’s company and see how many black people work at his office???? or for that matter how much content involving black talent is shot by that company.. and all the others ????
Right now the microscope is focused on the porn community, but if we switch lenses and take a wider view I think that many of us that live in Los Angeles know that the problem of std’s spreads across many of the social circles which are all inter connected with porn..
Take mainstream hollywood for example.. The actors,agents, directors and producers… all of these guys are hitting anything that moves.. Which include all runway models, playboy playmates, penthouse pets, porn stars ( basically any kind of wannabe model type or actress) who in turn are also sleeping with the pro athletes, up and coming college athletes, rock stars rappers, john mayers of the world… For gods sake even C. Feldman was hooking up with T.J Hart back in the day.
The point is I would love to see some statistics for the rates of Std’s in L.A county compared to the rest of the country.
Would anyone be surprised to see that a major mainstream studio like mgm or universal had just as many employees test positive for an std as porn stars? But there’s the rub… No one else in town is required to test.. No one elses private medical information is open to public scrutiny.
Just some randon thoughts while drinking some wine…
Oh and Btw.. Shelly Lubben and Pink Cross will do VERY well… She’s in the corridors of power now and she’s ammased a respectable stable of starlets to keep the boys in washington ” interested” She’s got a great hustle, more power to her. She’s much smarter than we give her credit for and at the end of the day money talks.
And to Monica Foster….that mind you’ve got on you woman… Too sexy.
To Justin Long, I’ve read you posts on race and certain companies or talent decisions not to shoot interracial.
A company has the right to exercise its creative license or direction for that matter.
For instance, Sony has the right to reject a script based on certain stereotypes that go against the studios agenda.If they are making Godzilla and don’t feel like they need Blacks, Mexicans ( I’m mexican btw) or pakistani’s in the cast its their creative license.
As far as talent is concerned, you have to admit that you also have some kind of sexual preferences… Would you sing up to do a scene with the bearded lady from the circus? Are you willing to shoot gay content, bi sexual or tranny scenes? I’m guessing that most of those fall outside of your preferences and hence you don’t shoot those types of scenes. It doesn’t make you homophobic ( which is another form of racism) its just not your thing.
I won’t argue that there are some rascist motives out there, but when you have a creative situation its just part of the deal. You have to have thick skin to work in entertainment, and you know that.
What I do see as blatent racism is when a performer like Tori Black, who by all accounts is contract star material, is being past up by major studios because she CHOOSES to shoot interracial… Now that’s just blatent rascism, and only time will tell if she or others that make the same choices she has made are considered not worthy of a contract.
I’m not bashing you at all, I’m just adding another perspective. And maybe I’m way off base, but for now I think what I’ve presented is at least plausable.
Stay thirsty my friend.
Hey, I’m so thankful we got some great discussion out of this. This is good. Regarding the “gaping” hole about choice.
I wrote a little something about that at http://www.shelleylubben.com/faqs
Well, I hope I see you all at the June 29 meeting. Your voice should definitely be heard.
If anybody in the adult industry is interested in debating me after the meeting in a fair and polite way, please come up to me after the meeting. I am not asking for a yelling match or a cat fight. I am proposing a simple public debate face to face that will be filmed and then posted on my web sites.
Hopefully I see you all there!
Ut oh, Roman, you’re gonna feel the wrath soon, lol.
Comparing black people to bearded ladies at the circus? lol
Speaking of “Stay thristy my friend”, just don’t drink the water, or the coffee down there.
Do you know that “Dos Equi” means:
a. When a guy has two “10”s on either side of him, just like that old Don Juan in the commercial.
b. It also means a woman (two X chromosomes)
c. It’s also a mexican beer dirty old men drink in the hopes of getting laid.
Jeremiah,
Thanks for the warning, I wasn’t trying to compare black people or mexican people or asians to bearded ladies. I’m also not making light of anything or anyone.
Again… Although it sucks… When it comes to “Sex” we all have preferences. And as a talent in the adult industry (since sex is involved) those preferences do have some influence on the workplace.
I don’t know Justin and I’m sure he’s a great guy. His post are very coherent and well spoken. I’m not trying to say he doesn’t have some valid points in regards to this issue, BUT in the context of entertainment, companies do have the right to make creative choices. And when it comes to sex we ALL have preferences.
My point with Justin was to show that he must have some preferences too, and even if I had to make it absurd, I’m assuming he does in fact have some kind of preferences.
Ok, received another email from Lubben.
She is not looking to do a real “debate” as of current – in actuality she is looking to have a “discussion” with adult entertainment professionals in a public setting so that she can record the discussions and edit them to suit her own agenda and post them on her website.
The reason that she is using the term “debate” as of current is because apparently Nightline and some other media outlets are interested in staging a debate in a collegiate setting for their “specials”. Most likely Lubben’s “organization” would be heaviliy compensated for this if she were to manage to reel someone into her web (she asked me if I would be willing to do this and that a “sponsor” would handle the travel expenses).
Lubben is definitely not open to doing an interview with Julie Meadows via the style of which Julie has conducted her past interviews in EVEN THOUGH Julie was open to Lubben’s personal camera crew to be present as well.
I was planning to go to the meeting on the 29th to check it out anyways so I’ll have a DISCUSSION with Lubben afterwards for sure, I will even bring my little webcam to record it to post on my youtube account.
Justin Long – you should probably do the same, and so should anyone else reading this who plans on checking out the happenings of the meeting on the 29th.
Should be funny.
Roman,
Thanks for the opinion—- someof what you say is true and I even pointed that out in my post with the part saying” you cant have a black man play george washington anymore then you can have a white woman play whoopi goldberg”
it becomes criminal when a company allows a contract employee to refuse to work with people based on color and race OR the company themselves demand that a star refuse to work or bar a talent from working with people based on color and race.. THATS THE POINT
As far as Tori Black (can’t believe her name just even came out of my mouth) she did not get refused contracts because she does IR.. that is unless companies have made some unheard of stand.. look at stars like bree olson and countless others that are contracted at some of the most racist companies on the face of the planet and they all vied for bree and others to be signed and Bree and others ALL did IR prior to being signed… wheres bree at now?????
Oh yeah Adam & Eve, which happens to be a carolina based company that shoot’s little to none IR.. in fact i know a few years back they did some black on black but to put a black man and a (oh so perfect) white woman together???? not in this life time and definitely not while the current CEO is standing…
Carolinas is for the good old boys..
a good point also was brought up by many fans … girls use an excuse that they are not attracted to black people and so they don’t do IR, but swerve the question when posed of “so were you attracted to ron jeremy when you fucked him?????” or for that matter any old ass hairy dude they have spread for & worked with on camera????
It’s all horse shit.. girls say no IR for two very simple reasons.. one — to “try” to extend thier career (and thats a weak as excuse with no proven results) and two— because they are racist..
Thats just as simple as it is —- Sunny lane (and we know each other) is working little enough that she feels the need to work at the bunny ranch for money but still refuses to do IR.. explain that to me.. funny enough when I would ask her when she was gonna start doing IR, she would always reply “Soon and I wil make sure you are the first” as if I would even let her work with me not only as the first but if I even chose to work with her at all..
thats like someone placing a shit bag on your door step and lighting it on fire and then after you stomp it out and get shit all over “your” foot then the person comes back and wants to come inside and go thru your fridge.. LOL.. a movement has started by some black males that bars (personal decisions by these guys) any girl from working with them that has EVER refused to do IR as a whole.. I support this action fully!!!!!
Soon the huge paday sought for by girls and agents by refusing to do or let the girl do IR scenes until she has a big enough name to support that payday, will be gone. Then girls will fall in line. Of Course unless they have plans to never EVER EVER EVER do IR in the first place at all and I mean EVER..
Fans are becoming aware of these girls. A list is being built as we speak accounting for all girls racial decisions in the industry.. this list is going to be published in a huge way… Fans by the nubers have been telling me and others they had no clue and now refuse on thier own accord to support not only the girls that refuse to do IR but the companies that refuse to shoot any real quantity of content that involves black…
girls and companies alike have lost fans and money. For this I am tickeled to death… it’s gonna keep growing .. when the list hits.. lets look at some numbers 6 months later and I bet we will beable to see an impact… i bet you we will also see girls loose thier composer and blow up publicly and/or jump ship from the racist ways.. hopefully black people will have the common since to let them drown…
Monica — sounds fun… how can she discuss and win any argument with people that are working currently.. all she is doing is trying to shove her views down thier throats..
it is just absurd for her to now after she has met her shelf life in the industry and made her money as well, start yelling porn is evil… fuck at least i did it while I was in… but then again she admits she learned all the tricks pulling tricks, so maybe she did’nt want to rock the boat like many and just sucked it up until she got hers and then left (obviously) and then figured she could make a good living yelling “porn is bad.. come to god” Shelley I’m in PORN and I AM WITH GOD…
Shelley — Mary Magdalin was getting stoned for ripping off a john when jesus found her.. I highly doubt Mary’s excuse to Jesus for ripping off the john was “prostitution made me do it”……
I will mail you Jerry
Call it what you want Monica. Discussion or Debate but I’ll be there ready to boldly discuss any issues regarding the porn industry. And no I don’t and won’t be receiving compensation from any media sources.
This isn’t about money. This is about the truth and protecting human lives.
See you and your friends there!
It’s a discussion – not a debate (you actually don’t know the definition – in your words as you said in your reply to my email – “it might be a discussion to you but a debate to me”) – please check wikipedia Lubben for the definition of “debate”.
And for you it IS about the money – what better to put on your website to encourage donations to “stop porn forever” than you “boldy” (aka yelling) at the “big bad porn monster” – personified in the body of a little black girl who decided to make a website about getting into porn which advises women as to how to do it logically.
Yep – see you and your Pink Cross mob soon Lubben.
Shelley —– what do I have to do to get an answer from you ?????
Oh and just aan observation, but monica and I are both active stars (well i’m on hiadus no doubt but active this year anyway)
So, maybe you should take to heart some of the things placed infront of you as you yourself say “you are speaking up for us”
So now can you maybe asnwer some of the questions I have layed out for you?????
Frankly justin, I think there are girls who refuse to do interracial because of bad experiences with CERTAIN TYPES of black men. It doesn’t make them racist. I watch a lot of movies with you in it and you seem like a nice guy but it often seems as if black-on-white porn seems to be about domination and abusing the girl. A lot of girls aren’t into that. Especially when its with a “big” black dude….
Justin, she doesn’t want to talk to you because she’s probably afraid of black men. She watched Oprah most likely so black women are OK for her to deal with.
Justin Long (and other porn peeps reading this who are sick of being demonized by Lubben) make sure you come out to her discussion on June 29th, because I’m going to be there for certain and she emailed me that since I’m encouraging other adult industry professionals to have a “discussion” with her as well, she’s bringing her Pink Cross mob to “boldly” question me about my “claims” on my websites and blogs.
origen01 — i’ll go with your theory, but then explain this to me. then why doesn’t the girl just put the black male that she had a bad exp. w/ on her NO list just like she would do with a white male?
Second, have you ever scene marcus sean or lex in a hardcore bondage movie? NO .. I have shot for KINK.COM and many of the girls you would be talking about have as well.. it’s like a badge in the industry
So if they don’t like being dominated and abused, then why and how did they manage to shoot for KINK??
I hear what you are saying and understand your logic, and even say it is very minutely somewhat true, but only as an excuse to hide the girls real problems with IR…
PS take a look at some of the white on white film and I think you will find abusing the girls physically is more in the white on white then black on white ie; maxxx hardcore
Monica — I am gonna try to be thier but can’t promise as I have real fish to fry in a real court of law that day.
Funny how she takes worry that stars are coming and feels a need to have her supporters thier when the fact is she is suppose to be supporting stars..
How many stars (ACTIVE) even support this chick who claims that she is fighting for US????
Thats the loopy part for me because I don’t see anyone I know standing up behind her and agreeing with her vies and ascertions about the state of the industry.
I do trully believe that her heart is in the right place, but I think her livelyhood is entirely to close for her to be takin seriously by the same people she false;y claims she is speaking for…
Shit I’m still waiting for my Tution check from her..
I swear she is collecting “donations” in the names of adult stars, but as a star I can’t even get answers from her. I think personally if I can’t get even an answer as to the accounting of money in an informal venue as such then she should’nt be using stars as her pawn to collect this money.
Hear that Shelley.. You’re here saying you accept Donations to help stars in transition but yet have asked 3 times now for simple numbers ie; your salary, how much you have givin to actual stars and who… all this is matter of public record being that you are a 501(c)(3) chairity.. the more you make me wait the more I’m gonna wanna call your foundation crock of shit..
and if you wait to damn long or ssimply not reply as your doing now then eventually I’m gonna just call for an investigation of your chairity and where your money really goes.. you are already displaying false numbers on your site that even LA times has retracted from thier intial reports..
Quit misleading folks and start answering questions.. Where’s the Money Going??????
Justin Long – yourself and other adult industry professionals really DO need to show I think in this situation – here’s why:
Shelley isn’t just emotionally stunted and traumatized from events she went through in her past that she hasn’t moved forward from – she’s dangerous because she’s a true extremist with a big mouth.
The problem with true extremists with big mouths, is that they become the vehicle for others (who due to their positions in society or careers can’t exactly be as vocal as she is, but who want to see a certain outcome) to promote their hate, intolerance, prejudice, racism, close minded views, etc. – and it’s people like Lubben who attract their FUNDING to eventually be able to materialize whatever agenda it is that they’re trying to promote.
I’m not concerned so much about how much money she makes, but where a lot of it comes from and WHO it comes from.
I know the real reason Lubben called me out – it’s because I created a website of which shares my experiences and gives an outline as to how to logically enter the industry and then exit the industry (whether you want to work behind the scenes or totally outside of adult) which is available to anyone for FREE (and I didn’t need donations from anyone or a religous organization to do it). I negate her “program”.
One of Mike South’s most recent blogs is spot on – he referenced the quote: “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing”. Shelley most likely isn’t “evil” but her view is way to narrow, intolerant and extreme. There are a lot of good people in the adult business who will lose a lot if Shelley stays on her path and gets her (and who funds her) way – so show that you’re not afraid of her and that you simply don’t agree.
Her “no more porn” stance doesn’t just cover hardcore, it covers softcore, erotica, webcam studios, individual webcam girls, webcam networks, adult cable networks, online adult video networks, etc.
When she’s done with “no more porn” what’s next? No more interracial relationships? No more high fat foods? No more music with curse word in the lyrics?
Monica, if you do have any interactions with Shelley there, I and others would love to be able to see them from your camera’s POV so perhaps Cindi will allow you to post that here. But my prediction would be that there will be very little direct answering of any questions you have, and a lot of repeating of passive aggressive rhetoric by Shelley. If anything comes of this, I’m sure my response will be “told ya so.” Good luck.
Monica — I’m gonna try to make it but what i’m dealing with down thier is so much more important to my life and future. I hear what you are saying and I see it.. You know I first saw pink cross at a convention running around trying to get people to join, funny how i was wearing a talent badge and she walked right by me.. LOLOL.. maybe she only tries to save the white females that resemble her..
I will try to make it but no promises..
Many people know me as Jade, many others know me as Sophia Mounds. Porn is nothing but b.s and drama. And many people whom claim not to love that drama secretly hunt it out. Was my career in porn destroyed by the very negative nanies whom post on this site and others. Yes it was, along with my reputation, but I find this to be one of the bigest blessings that anyone could bestow on another human being. Yes, Steve Driver was a friend and was a negative nanny himself. The peoblem I have with porn, is when people start making porn, they’re almost normal, but a couple of years in and many are down, to take some pretty stupid risks with their health and the health of others and yes that does include prostitution. Steve Drivers death has made me look at the people whom make porn in a much diffrent light. Its a negative one — I’ve noticed that many porn performers take other peoples words and actions far too seriously. Some are unable to forgive and will get even at any cost. But when I saw Steve jump, it actually brought a tear to my eyes. I didnt say ‘I’m glad the murdering mother f*cker is dead,’ which was something I read a lot of performers where feelling and saying. I also didnt automatically say ‘dam it wasnt Jeremy,’ I wouldnt want to see anyone ever jumping to a real life death. My problem is that the industry breeds all kinds of hate. And this hate is over a bunch of unimportant b.s., so the so called normal people will never take anyone seriously. Its sad to give your whole life to something and never really achieve the fame one is so despretly chaising after. Now thats the truth and its a sad truth.
Shelly Luben is trying to help, in her own way. Trying to do a job no one else would ever want. Why? Because many performers, directors, producers and some of the lower members are botom feeders. That no one else would ever give a shit about.
Ive changed, would I try to walk in her shoes, probably not.
Yes I did write an article, about her and cindi. After months of abuse from this site, I to felt like getting even. Which was stupid, a waiste of energy, and a stupid waiste of my prescious time.
We have to appreciate that anyone would be willing to fight for us at all. Although I’d like to see some transperency with the donations given. That would be nice, but really its not necesary.
My news site will be run from a positive outlook from now on. I dont generally do interviews, because I have two jobs and dont have the time. I just want to contribute in a positive maner that makes porn and the people whom make it, look less douch like. Which does not help performers in the real world.
Are there agents whom give girls drugs, well when I worked for hustler in 97. A hot blond had an agent in venise, after the shoot, we went back to her agents pad where she was staying. Everyday she was forced to do girl, girl scenes after her agent had given her meth in the morning. How do I know, I spent the night there, where she beged me not to say no to a girl – girl scene, because then she’d have to do another scene. But that was in 97, is it still hapening today? Well one thing for shore, sorry to say this, there are a lot of sleezy agents and producers out there in porn land.
The worlds not a perfect place, Im sure ther are a lot of women and men whom are in porn whom only want, to pay their bills and take care of their kids. Which has become harder and harder to do.
I have a stripper friend, whom has two regular jobs and strips, to support her 3 kids. She spends a lot of money on day care and she never really sees them because her dead beat husband wont help her out. And because she wants her kids to have a good life.
To search for 501 C3 charities or learn more about them please visit http://www.irs.gov.
I’m curious, how much in donations do you think we bring in a year?
But really isent that why any of us work? Not really for fame, power or any of that, but just to be able to contribut to our households. The only diffrence with any adult job, people become traped. I could have a 9-5 grind job, typing or anwsering phones, but right now I dont want that, my jobs give me the freedom to live life as I choose. Because everything in life is a choice. But Im happy when someone is generally pasionate about anything, because they are truelly alive. When so many, like my own father, have one job all their lives, and never do anything they have ever dreamed of and become like the lead character in the play by Author Miller called Cat On A Hot Tin Roof. Now thats a biger tragedy then making porn. Waisting your whole life, living in that river called denial, about how great your family, job and life was, when the reality was it sucked. And I believe that that has driven more people to suicide, than anything else.
By the way Monica, you can lie to your comrades here but you won’t be able to lie to me or the public.
Recorded words have a way of holding us accountable. And you’ve been more than diligent to use many words and spew out many accusations.
We’ll be sure to talk about this on the 29th.
PS: I am praying for you. I trust the LORD will be visiting you this week in a powerful way. He loves you Monica.
PS: I am praying for you. I trust the LORD will be visiting you this week in a powerful way. He loves you Monica. Ew!!!
Well, I love you, Shelley. I love you and I know that some anti-psychotic medication can heal you of your hallucinations. And I forgive you for being mean to me and my friend. God does hate you, though. He just told me.
I’ll be praying for you too Julie. Get ready for a special visitation from God this week. Jesus Christ truly loves you.
Also, The President is right, Monica. Shelley is a brainwashed, babbling idiot. She won’t answer your questions any more than she answered mine on Mike’s site. She only repeats very rehearsed, emotionally-charged lies. Doug is more than willing to join you on stage and join in the discussion. He is very good at debates and/or discussions and wants to be part of it.
Ew!!! Are you threatening me? You just threatened me. You psychotic hag! I have you threatening me on a blog! “Get ready for a special visitation from God this week. Jesus Christ loves you. You better not threaten me. You are sick!
Julie, calm down. Shelley’s not threatening you. God’s not gonna attack you, either, so don’t worry.
When Shelley talks of a “special visitation from God”, she’s certainly talking about his holy, immortal spirit.
But like I said, no worries, Shelley “loves” you.
(it’s scary to think that i might be the sanest one here!)
😀
I know. I’m just having some fun, but really, that is not sane, and the only logical conclusion the reach is that something like that, from an irrational person, is a hex. I just posted an anti-Devil Lady chant for hexes like that. 😀
Julie,
Since when is prayer a threat?
No one is threatening you. I am sincerely praying God will visit you and pour out His goodness on your life.
I am praying for all of you. God has so much more for you than the porn industry offers you. I sincerely would love to see all of you succeed in life and not have to SURVIVE in this cut throat industry.
Someday you’ll understand me. But for now, I pray.
God is coming… and it’s gonna be quite a load.
splatttt! boo-yah!
Come on, Everyone let’s hold hands, smile and sing… Let us raise the dead!!!
=:p== :D== :D=
I’m not in the industry. I don’t need your prayers. I am married and out, too, but the difference is, I’m not asking for prayer. I sincerely pray for you, too, in my own way. I really do.
Hey Shelley, ask God if I can have one million dollars and a new automobile. And anytime he needs a ride, it’s on me.
Lord Jesus,
I ask you to POUR out your Spirit on all of these precious people and reveal your great love and power to them. I come against anything evil that would hinder them from their God-given destinies.
I speak the LIFE of Christ Jesus over them as they read this.
I declare hope and healing into their physical bodies, their minds and their hearts.
I ask you to release better jobs for them and even better pay! I speak healing over their families. Bless them LORD GOD!
I thank you Father God for protecting their lives.
In Jesus name, Amen.
(If anybody wants private prayer or confidential help you can email help@thepinkcross.org. We are here for you guys.)
Thanks Julie. That is very kind of you.
I need the prayers.
Better yet, send me Aladdin’s lamp, so I can wish for a bunch of stuff. My imagination is stirring…
We all do. But what we don’t need is anyone dictating our truths for us. Help people who ask for it, absolutely! But you’re forcing yourself on people who don’t want your help. Love, but don’t incur hate and wrath because you don’t respect people’s boundaries. You have a good heart in you, lady, but you are going too far. You’re trying to infringe upon people’s rights. You might want to get out of the situation you’re in, and pursue a happiness that might be better for you. 🙁
I’m of the opinion that if there are no condoms in Heaven, God should allow us to be condom free on Earth!
Can I have an “Amen” out there?
Hallelujah
Ashes to ashes, dust to dust, skin on skin…
You’re going to move to Washington D.C.? What will happen to all of the adult stars who want your help? Just curious.
Are you kidding me, Julie? D.C. is the perfect place for Shelley to go to. Politicians are much worse sinners than even the worst of porno heathens. They truly need Shelley’s help much more than we do. In fact, we porn stars should gang up on the politicians, instead of vice versa, unless they have an appointment. If only Steve Driver wasn’t such an idiot mental case he might have had a future there as Obama’s body double. Speaking of Steve Driver, who’s gonna be Sophia’s new bodyguard? … should be interesting.
To Lubben:
LIE?!?!?! Lie about WHAT? Anyone who wants to read the emails that Lubben and her camp sent me I will GLADLY forward them to you – just let me know.
Not only has Lubben chickened out on Julie interviewing her because she can’t handle it and has a lot to hide, but now she’s calling me a LIAR and had CHANGED the terms of her discussion which she calls a “debate”.
You’re an immature and uneducated asshole Lubben – period. You were NEVER a pornstar – you were primarily a prostitute and I am FAR from being against prostitution but ADMIT it, that is EXACTLY what you PRIMARILY were and still ARE but for your cult which you call a church.
You are an EMOTIONALLY CRIPPLED pathetic child of a woman who’s never dealt with her past and demonizes anyone that you can’t relate to or deal with.
You wanna get dirty – fine – lets get dirty. You have HUMILIATED your first born daughter REPEATEDLY by PUBLICLY deeming her a TRICK BABY. What kind of mother and PERSON are you to do that? You have RUINED your first borns self esteem via your REPEATED speeches as to how she came into being. GET REAL. Think about that one LUBBEN. You have RUINED your first born daughters reputation and LIFE. There’s a special place in the here after for you Lubben for that move.
In addition to that, Lubben is UNWILLING to allow Julie Meadows to interview her in an intimate setting but is willing to pay for a room after the AHF / OSHA meeting on the 29th to do the “discussion” (aka attack) on myself, my ventures, my website and porn in general – she also wants to bring her Pink Cross Mob to attack me as well (GOD knows she can’t deal with me on her own due to the fact that she’s a complete follower and can’t think independently without prompting and prep).
If anyone wants me to forward them the emails in regards to this, I have no problem doing so – I WILL be posting them in their entirety on my Monica Foster BLOG.
Lubben continues to change the terms of her initial challenge to me but demands her terms regardless. This woman is a brainwashed sick psycho with the agenda of whoever funds her and this makes her AND the Pink Cross DANGEROUS.
I thought the Pink Cross was OK, for a while but now I wouldn’t recommend them to ANYONE and I have removed their links completely from my Getting Into Porn dot Com website.
Grow up Lubben. Mature and stop ruining your and your daughters life. You have become a pathetic piece of trash that will not be going to what you envision of “heaven” for certain.
I’m not a liar because I have nothing to loose and nothing to hide. You hate me because I AM what you wish you could have been, but never will be – an independent ADULT woman who stands on her OWN 2 FEET and who doesn’t have to BOW DOWN and REPENT to her father in law in order to be accepted into his family and his church.
You see YOURSELF as a whore and being that you’ve never healed yourself from that, it is what you ARE – but guess what, just because YOU are, it doesn’t make ALL women who have worked in the adult entertainment industry ANYTHING LIKE YOU.
Being that my comment is awaiting moderation, I will edit and post it AGAIN
Lubben,
LIE?!?!?! Lie about WHAT? Anyone who wants to read the emails that Lubben and her camp sent me I will GLADLY forward them to you – just let me know.
Not only has Lubben chickened out on Julie interviewing her because she can’t handle it and has a lot to hide, but now she’s calling me a LIAR and had CHANGED the terms of her discussion which she calls a “debate”.
You’re an immature and uneducated asshole Lubben – period. You were NEVER a pornstar – you were primarily a prostitute and I am FAR from being against prostitution but ADMIT it, that is EXACTLY what you PRIMARILY were and still ARE but for your cult which you call a church.
You are an EMOTIONALLY CRIPPLED pathetic child of a woman who’s never dealt with her past and demonizes anyone that you can’t relate to or deal with.
You wanna get dirty – fine – lets get dirty. You have HUMILIATED your first born daughter REPEATEDLY by PUBLICLY deeming her a TRICK BABY. What kind of mother and PERSON are you to do that? You have RUINED your first borns self esteem via your REPEATED speeches as to how she came into being. GET REAL. Think about that one LUBBEN. You have RUINED your first born daughters reputation and LIFE. There’s a special place in the here after for you Lubben for that move.
In addition to that, Lubben is UNWILLING to allow Julie Meadows to interview her in an intimate setting but is willing to pay for a room after the AHF / OSHA meeting on the 29th to do the “discussion” (aka attack) on myself, my ventures, my website and porn in general – she also wants to bring her Pink Cross Mob to attack me as well (GOD knows she can’t deal with me on her own due to the fact that she’s a complete follower and can’t think independently without prompting and prep).
If anyone wants me to forward them the emails in regards to this, I have no problem doing so – I WILL be posting them in their entirety on my Monica Foster BLOG.
Lubben continues to change the terms of her initial challenge to me but demands her terms regardless. This woman is a brainwashed sick psycho with the agenda of whoever funds her and this makes her AND the Pink Cross DANGEROUS.
I thought the Pink Cross was OK, for a while but now I wouldn’t recommend them to ANYONE and I have removed their links completely from my Getting Into Porn website.
Grow up Lubben. Mature and stop ruining your and your daughters life. You have become a pathetic piece of trash that will not be going to what you envision of “heaven” for certain.
I’m not a liar because I have nothing to loose and nothing to hide. You hate me because I AM what you wish you could have been, but never will be – an independent ADULT woman who stands on her OWN 2 FEET and who doesn’t have to BOW DOWN and REPENT to her father in law in order to be accepted into his family and his church.
You see YOURSELF as a whore and being that you’ve never healed yourself from that, it is what you ARE – but guess what, just because YOU are, it doesn’t make ALL women who have worked in the adult entertainment industry ANYTHING LIKE YOU.
I scanned through the pile load of comments on this thread, and I have to say it’s great to see how Shelly Lubben’s ass was handled to her on a platter by Julie Meadows and Monica Foster, two adult, intelligent women who chose pornography as their profession, are comfortable with their choice, and do not need any fabricated god or corrupt government to interfere with their lives and their choices. It couldn’t get any better than a con artist being discredited and dragged through the mud by the very people she pretends to protect and save.
Shelly, I know you’re reading this, so I’ll leave this message for you: In a previous comment, you wrote:
‘I’m curious, how much in donations do you think we bring in a year?’
Why playing the curious game if you don’t have anything to hide? You can make screen captures of your financial records (donation receipts, etc.) and post them on your blog and on this web site for everybody to see. Furthermore, you can accept Julie Meadows’ interview invitation and try to answer some straight forward questions and explain yourself instead of repeating your *I love you and pray for you* horseshit which doesn’t hold a drop of water and doesn’t mean anything to anybody, yourself included. But let’s face it, you can never do that, because you really don’t have anything to say other than your rehearsed, repeated crap, do you? You’re nothing but a broken, lying, pathetic shell of a human being and I can only promise you two things: First, you’ll never achieve anything out of this and will never change anything, not on June 29th, not ever. Second, if there is a hell, you’ll be there, guaranteed. If god exists, he will never tolerate the likes of you who take bad advantage of his name.
One more thing, I feel as if my well being and career as an independent adult entertainer as of current has been seriously threatened by Shelley Lubben and the Pink Cross (I actually feel that my life could be in danger at this point) and I have decided to forward all emails of which I’ve received from her to authorities, my personal attorney and media outlets to show that:
1) All communications from Shelley Lubben in actuality are not actually from her personally (as I said, I will forward ANYONE the emails and you will see what I mean).
2) Whoever Shelley Lubben is, is an incredibly unbalanced individual who should not be “helping” anyone.
3) Shelley Lubben is not a person of her word and that consistently she changes her terms of her initial “agreements”.
To The Colonel:
My last major comment is still awaiting moderation from the admin, however it’s a major comment so hopefully it will be accepted.
She is nothing but a projecting psycho – the only “liar” is HER and who funds her.
Lubben and those hiding under her skirt have more to hide in my opinion than ANYONE could most likely imagine and you know what, she and her “organization” are about to be 100% exposed.
Maybe they should rename their site “Pink UN-crossed”
Monica, I’ll look forward to reading your comment once it’s approved; and you’re right, Shelly Lubben is the one who has the most at stake and the most to lose in her dirty little games. She’s being discredited and exposed, thanks to the likes of you and Julie Meadows who stand for themselves and refuse to be deceived and manipulated by Shelly Lubbens of this world.
Much love and respect to you, keep up the good work.
I’m not gonna say anything except as consumer of porn, I’ve always respected Shelly and the girls of the Pink Cross going to porn conventions and reaching out. I thought their approach was more honest and understanding than the XXXChurch.
Just my two cents…
I think Shelley could command large figures if she made a cumback. She could do a solo with a pink, cross-shaped, double helmet-headed dildo, and then get bangbanged by some Priests, a few passing Rabbis and even throw in a wandering Monk just for the fuck of it. All the money could go to helping down and out former porn stars and promoting religious and spiritual awareness.
God, forgive me.
Wow,
Well Shelley I appreciate the link. it has definitely saved me time. However I think you know the answer to the question that you posed to me better then I ever would and I’m sure how much your foundation took in last year is on the tip of your tounge, so I don’t know why the games and you didn’t just tell me and everyone else
Transparancy in non-profits is a big deal now days and by making me search and repeatedly ask you, it just makes people including me think that you are actaully hiding something…
True enough Shelley The lord and savior is comming but not this week babe.. next year or in 2012 yes.. all of us will be called on in tribulations with a very clear and un-ambiguous choice of who we will give our souls too.. We are in revelations now !!!
I willingly accept your prayers !!!! I pray for the entire world nightly for the most part and especially for the less fortunate.. I will include you.. I worry though, because some times you sound very close on the edge of bareing false witness and amazingly close to sounding blastfamous..
just an observation definitely not a judgemnet.. I am imperfect by far, but I very often ask My father Jesus christ to forgive my faults and sins against him the father and the kingdom of heaven
I’m worried for you though because this line you are walking and this hard line you have taken in christ’s name is very close to being a false prophet… again just aan observation.. I think your heart is in the right place, but to use the name of christ to argue and attempt tto change mans law is a tricky thing… be whole in your heart shelley…
God will forgive you for many things, but to be labled a false prophet by Peter could be some real bad news..
God Bless you and God Speed
Justin Long,
I see where you’re coming from, but you really have to get over the fact that you’re never going to have sex with Sunny Leone, Jesse Jane, Tera Patrick, Stormy Daniels…
Instead, you should focus your energy on the girls that have no problem with IR.
Free Porn — I hear what you’re saying and trust me this doesn’t keep me awake at night.. out of the girls you even mentioned Jessie Jane is the only one I would even fuck, and I would do that for free..
You know the girls that choose not to do IR and the agents that would sway talent from doing IR are saying the same thing you are right now…
Know why????? because they don’t want attention brought to there little dirty and discriminative practices, thoughts, and acts..
free Porn — i am 99% positive that I’m done shooting porn in the US by choice, so you couldn’t be more over it then that, would you not agree???? I’m yelling so young ass brothas and sista in the industry aint got to cost themselves work by having to do what I’m doing when they finally open there eyes and see the blatant bullshit that crackin up in this bitch
I just found a page on Shelley’s site where she blames the industry for killing Ami Jordan, even though there’s no information on how Ami died and it states that she hadn’t actually done a scene recently before her death because she was on probation for a previous DUI charge. I wrote a post about it on my site. It’s full of assumptions and inconsistencies. She is not a good person.
Julie i just read your blog and you know i just want to say that you are bringing this women the limelight she wants to be in. Ignore her! She has no clue what happens in the real world! there are people on drugs everywhere! Trust me in my 39 years on this planet i have met lots of people taking everything and anything!
another thing i just thought of Julie is you are correct on how this women is. she wants us to feel for the family yet she is posting it was an overdose. now i had a former coworker 20 years old pass away from a heroin overdose back in December. his obit said natural causes FOR THE FAMILY! so yes she is a devil for posting what she is saying.
I know, but the problem is she’s already getting the attention she wants, but no one, thus far, is pointing out her lies and the way she twists facts. She’s already got the limelight, and she’s using it for evil. lol
All kidding aside, though, it’s beyond that. Also, she attacked my friend, and I don’t put up with that. Attack me, fine, but not my friends and loved ones. Ignoring her would be the worse possible thing I could do.
To quote Mike South, who quoted Edmund Burke, “All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.” He might have meant it in a different way, but I take it to mean that someone has to address her obvious stupidity and the way she is manipulating a “War on Illegal Pornography” without addressing anything factual and illegal. I know 2257 law, but nothing about her speech addressed specific illegal acts that she has proof of. There was nothing about child pornography. She focused on STD’s and statistics without a complete analysis of the facts. She is a manipulative liar and she is threatening people I care about. If people like her have her way, you won’t be able to buy a Playboy magazine or watch simulated sex in a mainstream movie. Bible thumpers are perverts behind closed doors because they consider natural human acts to be contemptuous. My natural human acts are NOT contemptuous. My friends do not deserve to be attacked by someone who is, so far, a failed human being.
i think a sane person can see her lies i can and i have nothing to do with the industry except as a watcher and reader. i tasted bile in my mouth just watching the video of her in dc
Hay Misty — Just found your article LOL if you can call it that http://xxxworldofporn.com/?p=2979&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
What a snake in the grass.. the words plagerism come tom mind.. beyond that . shitty reporting … First of all
Part of the words you plagerized came from the article that was released in AInews as well as LIB
Second — tell us miss sophia mounds — holyer than thou since you NO longer shoot porn
were you attracted to every white man you fucked and sucked while you were a porn star????
did’nt think so.. So then the next question is, is then why would all non IR shooting girls have to be attracted to black men to shoot with them ?????
You did some real cutting and chopping of my words, and in fact it was down right Hacking.. pretty ballsy and then to not even ask to use my words
check it out folks and then compare to my words
http://xxxworldofporn.com/?p=2979&utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Talk about morally bankrupt….
Tell me Sophia — did you magically get your morals back after you quit fucking and sucking for a living????
I think after reading my article that you hacked and ripped off most will say –fuck no
Are you aware I could sue the fuck out of you right now???? are you aware I am strongly considering it????
tell you what lets come back to that
You wrote
Many black performers are starving for XXX work, and are having to get real jobs, (but honey — porn is not forever!) or at least it shouldn’t be.
I never wrote what is in paranthesis or what is after, but yet you make it appear that I wrote what is after the paraenthisis
Justin goes on to claim; that he was sick of all the racial profiling that he had to endure in the industry, that happened ever day; telling us that the way he feels, is not because — he only wants to get between contract girls legs, (sure?).
Is that waht you call responsible reporting???
(But that’s really unfair, and a very un-even contrast in the industry. He’s not to hip on BBW scenes, but want’s every non-black, female performer, to work with black male performers; seems fair?)
A.) i have many friends that are considered BBW and I love working with them — so that a flat out lie and twisting of my words
b.) I have never refused to work with BBW’s .. I have scohse not to work on some projects but have never refused to do BBW..
so please explain to all the people that had no clue you were such a back stabbing cunt .. how you can even compare that to chicks saying “your black” “i wont work with you”
tell us Sophia ever fuck ron jeremy or shoot for maxx hardcore???
Were you really attracted to ron ???
were you really into maxxx shitting and pissing on you?
So why all of a sudden the need to be attracted to someone to work with them when the issue comes to skin color?????
Mr. Pete — Black !!!!!
Toni T. — Black !!!!!!
But they are light skinned —-
who do they fuck ?????? the stormy danieals jessie janes and jessica drakes of the industry
An the hate continues; when he says — but it’s alright for them, (he means bitches) to disrupt our income.
did you really as a supposed journalist just say “he means” ?????
Are you fucking high.. ?????? how in the flying fuck would you know what the fuck I mean??? you have never bothered to talk to me.. you sure in the fuck didn’t ask me to use my words or article…
You have a real problem here..
you wrote in your post here
“My news site will be run from a positive outlook from now on. I dont generally do interviews, because I have two jobs and dont have the time. I just want to contribute in a positive maner that makes porn and the people whom make it, look less douch like. Which does not help performers in the real world.”
So please tell us WTF was positive about this????
In fact women it was down right criminal..
I suggest you have your attorney contact me ASAP thru my agent World Modeling.. otherwise I’ll have my attorney contact you with a summons and complaint
Lady you are getting sued!!!!!
I’m sure as soon as the judge see’s “he means bitches” and is informed that we never talked the trial will be over..
We are looking at The Pink Cross’ financial report. $10, 075.00 for travel? $1,500.00 for Lobbying, which my husband says is a huge red flag for 501 c3 companies. All-in-all, after the expenses are tallied, it doesn’t look like there is much at all left for the people she’s “helping”. What say you of that Shelley? She’s gotta be paying someone to do her hair and makeup. Oh, the glamorous life of the witch hunter. “Forget your life of “physical slavery” and join my life of “mental slavery”! Where I enjoy it all through material comforts and travel, and you enjoy… not… being in porn… ” Sounds like getting out without her help is the best way to go, honestly.
Monica Foster has a great blog for exiting the industry, by the way: http://www.gettingoutofporn.com
Free Porn — i had left another comment but it didn’t make it through moderatrtion …..
I had said (adjusted now)
whith your line of thinking, in black and white it means
N^%&@R’s NOT ALLOWED .. deal with it… and be a good N#$#RO….
as I have said before, with that line of thinking black people would still be sitting on the back of the bus
That doesn’t work for me !!!! not as a black man, a united states citizen, or as a disabled veteran… sorry
Justin,
My apologies for the time it took me to respond… And my response is with coming with the most respect I can possibly have.
But enough with the bullshit… YOU show me how to make more money doing inter racial porn… Prove to everyone that that’s the golden ticket to selling more movies. Because this is a business, and the ONLY color that matters is green.
I don’t doubt that there is some rasism in this business. But if a ” model” chooses not to shoot inter racial because she believes it will further her career, she has that right.
And I’ve been in his office ( I say “his” because we all know who I’m talking about) when a new girl was signing on for representation.. And when she checked the ” will do inter racial” box he said NOTHING. They completed the package and she was working within a week. Maybe he didn’t think she was a ” Top” girl or something.. But that was the process on that given day. No one ever tried to steer her away from inter racial.
Justin you are a actor/performer.. You have an agent that takes phone calls when a company wants to shoot you. But whens the last time you stopped by the vivid or wicked offices and said hey I’ve been taking some acting classes and I’m also a good performer, here’s my new head shots, do you have something I can maybe read for? I’m guessing never.If you were someone so exceptional, like maybe had the Tyson Beckford of porn appeal.. You could probobly afford to sit back and let your agent WAIT for people to call him/her. The people that you critisize so heavily shoot scripted material and even if they had a part for you… They have no idea if you do the dialog or act.So if your not out there hustling for work then you have no one to blame but yourself.
If the majority of porn consumers PAY to see white performers then that’s what porn producers will SELL them. If Toyota is selling more camrys than corollas, they make more camrys then they do corollas. Period, its not that somebody at Toyota hates the corolla.
The majority of porn consumers are white males. If you really want to make change, you will have find a way to (A) get these consumers more interested in seeing inter racial or (B) doing more to develop the Black consumer. I know a lot of black men/women that don’t want to see porn with white women or white men. But these consumers don’t buy as much porn as white males. You have to ask yourself why? Is it because no black stars appeal to these consumers? I doubt that.. the only possible answer is that its not being done right to make these consumers spent their money.
Tyler Perry makes a hell of a lot of money making movies that appeal to black audiences.. And I don’t think he gives a damn about his movies having much crossover appeal. His movies are very focused and he’s found a way to get the black consumer to spend money on his movies and do tons of volume using beautiful actors and acresses playing successful people with nice houses, great friends and family. But you see NOTHING in black porn that resembles his movies. I find it strange that no one in our industry would attempt to follow his lead.
Like I said before, you’ve made some good points in previous posts… You seem like a smart guy… But use your focus on being creative and do something constructive. You will never change what the current porn consumer is buying, but you can produce or pitch someone to produce a product that could help grow that market and grow jobs for all the black performers. In fact imagine a Madea parody since parodies are so hot right now.
Anyway. I’ve given you enough ideas..
In closing I can GUARANTEE you this, if you were polka dotted and Vivid found that there was an enourmous market that wanted to PAY to see the polka dotted man fuck.. Steve Hirsch himself would be blowing up your phone… Because its ALL about money.
We will talk later about where you can send the royalties. Good luck man.
Pink UN-crossed? Wow.
Go ahead Monica and “expose” Pink Cross. To help you begin your great mission in life, please visit http://www.thepinkcross.org and read over our financial reports and to verify online I created an account for ALL OF YOU at http://www.guidestar.org where you can search a database of over 2,000,000 nonprofits and charities.
Login: LIBlogin@yahoo.com
Password: 0099love
Once you are logged in, type the name of ANY sex industry ministry or organization and click search. (You know who they are.)
The name of our organization is Pink Cross Foundation based in California. Click on the name of the organization and click on the tab Forms 990 and Docs and you will be able to easily verify IRS financial statements.
Then while you’re at, why don’t you be fair and investigate AIM. Funny but AIM doesn’t show up anywhere and when I called the IRS, they told me AIM is registered but for SOME REASON their information isn’t showing up. Hmmmm. Someone needs to call AIM and ask for their IRS Form 990. If they refuse, you can fill out the 4506-A at
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/f4506a.pdf and mail it in and it takes about 60 days. Gee I wonder what AIM is hiding.
Pink Cross on the other hand has nothing to hide. We have truly done our best to help adult industry workers all over the world. We largely focus on the Adult Film Industry because we feel there isn’t enough help for you guys but my team has worked diligently to reach out to every adult worker who has ever contacted us not to mention GOING TO PORN CONVENTIONS where we offer thousands of FREE gifts and resources.
STD educational pamphlets, IRS Pamphlets with laws and rights for adult industry workers, thousands of FREE CDs and Books, Bibles, beauty supplies, jewelry, homemade scarves, hand written notes, Starbucks cards because WE LOVE YOU A LATTE!
We’ve held you in our arms, listened to your problems, encouraged you and made you laugh, and the list goes on. Not everyone has appreciated our help, especially when we won’t pay their $500 cell phone bills or give them cash. But you know how adult industry workers can be.
Monica, I feel sorry for you. I truly do. You are very talented and have a lot of potential but you are taking on a reputable organization whose leader is an honest and reputable woman. Not a perfect woman but an honest one. My address is even on the 990 form. You know what I mean?
If you truly want to expose me Monica, you should go all out and video tape me in Bakersfield at the Vons on Coffee Rd. It’s especially exciting when I shop in the produce section.
Okay folks, thanks for all the contributions to this blog. It has been very beneficial for me to learn so much about you. I hope this blog has helped you learn about me and Pink Cross as well. If anyone has any questions regarding legal documentation for Pink Cross, please email garrett@thepinkcross.org and he will reply to you in a timely manner. My husband is the secretary and he doesn’t have anything to hide either. And oh, he doesn’t get paid. In fact, neither do my team members who some of them moved across the country and left their families so they can minister to YOU!
Pink Cross loves you and believes in you. End of story.
I look forward to seeing many of you on the 29th. Be sure to come up to me and introduce yourself. I am a very nice person although when bold faced lied to, I do get a little agitated.
Have any of you ever checked this out? As a 501(c)(3), the Pink Cross (2009) Tax Returns are public record. Here is also the Pink Cross (2008) Tax Return.
It kind of makes your stomach turn. You should really look at this and see how you feel about the numbers. In 2008, nothing seems to have gone to any person in need…mostly salary and travel. Of $125,100 in donations for 2009, at most $14,107.00 appears to have gone directly to help any people the organization claims to help. $1500 went to Lobbying, though not illegal by a 501(c)(3) has some serious restrictions which keeps most non-profits from doing it. Here are some more highlights:
Other Expenses: Outreach: $13,176.00
This needs a definition, because by definition it is not outreach to those in need. From Wikipedia: Outreach is an effort by individuals in an organization or group to connect its ideas or practices to the efforts of other organizations, groups, specific audiences or the general public. Unlike marketing, outreach does not inherently revolve around a product or strategies to increase market share.
Compensation for current officers, directors, trustees, and key employees: $44,468
Fees for services (non-employees) :Other: $7,963.00
Other Expenses: All other expenses (It makes reference to #5. Compensation for current officers, directors, trustees, and key employees. That seems kind of odd to me. ???): $11,615.00
Payroll Taxes: $4,868.00
Travel: $10,075.00
Conferences, conventions, and meetings: $4,773
11% seems to have actually gone to help those in need.
In comparison
12% went to Travel, Conferences, Conventions and meetings
11% went to soliciting other organization’s support (Outreach)
55% went to Payroll, Payroll taxes, non employee services, and “other” (that references Payroll)
Can you sinceely say that you believe the numbers from these returns suggest she is helping anyone but herself?
Roman,
You sound like a cool enough cat… no worries about the other post .. I took no offense and didn’t read it that way.
I think female models that say no IR to further thier career, is wrong.. the fact is most say no IR only tell they get a name and then come a calling looking for a big payday and open arms from the black community.
the females that end up never shooting IR ??? well i think that speaks volumes for it’s self huh…???
You are absolutely right .. this is a business and it’s all about money… and the fact is, is every girl that refuses to do IR is effecting every single black persons money…
Every shoot that is done by a company and not one black person is in it, effects the black people.. ever wonder why most up and comming talent owned companies are owned by non-blacks ??? could it be because because the blacks have less money to work with because over all in fine comparison they are making less?????
Hay, I’m not blaming the worlds problems on non IR shooting girls and non IR shooting companies.. what I am saying is we all know right from wrong.. and we all know damn well that whats going on is wrong.. this aint congress where we have to ignore shit citing national security..
You said I willnever change the porn that the consumer is buying.
I have to tell you you are wrong.. I have and have been told by consumers that I have.
Many porn fans had no clue this shit was going on.. they saw a pretty girl and bought the movie.. most porn fans don’t care if the guy is white black purple or green, because most people are not racist and simply dont care.. they want to see the girl and the girls and gay guys want to see the guys
Fans have ben telling many black stars that talk to our fans regulary that in fact “they will no longer support these girls or companies that refuse to work with blacks”
it always through me for a loop to go to a convention and see black people lined up to meet or greet a star that refuses to do IR.. it was un comprehendable to me.. i was litterally in awww and always thought like what fuckin idiots.. that chick wouldn’t fuck you even if you paid her 5k .. why in the hell would he want to meet her??
Now I know and they tell me daily… “they had no idea” tell me???? what do you think the numbers woould look like at the end of the year if no more b;lack people bought vivids movies.. or anything with stormy daniels or nikki benz in it??? sure enough white males in thier 40 and up buy most porn, but porn money isn’t in DVD’s anymore..
many white males over 40 can’t even use a computer.. not trying to imply incompetance or anything…
Cool i wont argue what you saw at “his” office.. but uhhh i have had ex g/f that have been repped by “him” and others.. girls talk shit when they dont like someone and many do NOT like him so all the dirty secrets come out..
We all know “he” sways girls that he thinks are vivid, wicked, A&E, DP, ect.. type girls.. shit i know for a fact he throws the black girls to the wolves… I have never once heard of a white girl from “his” office being sent to do a BBC scene for her first shoot..
Funny enough I shot with a black girl from “LA direct” her first scene ever and he sent her to pistol whip/sudden impact and knew she was shooting with me.. thiers your double standard from derek Haye
did you miss the post — he has 136 talent as of a couple weeks agao and 2 are black 1 guy and 1 girl.. thats barely 1% of his talent..
My future will include some porn, not for companies but rather my own.. it will not be done in LA or california for that matter .. in fact it is not even being done in the US.. my servers wont be here my content will never touch foot on US soil and soon I wont be in the US either..
I’m so intolerant of the BS that happens in SFV anymore it’s sick.. the racism is so fucking out in the open the industry smells of sewer… everyone can see it and so for people to question me for calling it is just absurd.. people can make excuses for white girls not doing IR all day long
but the fact is when thwey tell (black me only) a guy “i dont do IR” they finish the statement with “sorry” why say sorry if you have’nt done anything wrong???? it’s because they know it’s wrong too.. they wouldn’t want to be singled out if gay was the new and white was out .. treat others as you would have them treat you..
Now I see that alot of girls and even 2 from vivid that dont do IR are now doing IR.. the economy alone is turning these jokes called stars.. oh I dont do IR unless i need the money real bad should be the new phrase.. wont it be interesting to here some of the excuses these girls had used for not doing IR before they turned to doing IR …
bet some used the excuse Sophia mounds spurted in her hacking of my article “there not attracted to black men” .. LOL yeah unless the fuckin price is right, right Sophia
roman you would be wrong — i have been to vivid before and sat down with there talent coordinator.. features would had been nice but I’m more yelling about the green bro.. it’s all relative at the end .. features equals publicity (most of the time) which equals AVN noms which = awards =n which equals publicity… do you ever wonder why you dont see shane diesel or Mr. marcus on the news when spots are done on porn???? you see jenna jameson and her drug addicted ass.. you see white stars and white company owners.. thats who speaks for this industry..
Aint no white bitch that wont fuck me damn sure gonna talk for me.. how the fuck do they know what state the balck community in the industry is in… they dont… nor does steve hirsch.. why??? cause they dont work with or associate with the likes of us.. it’s very personal.. and your damn right it pisses me the fuck off
Mr Long sir I am what my name is justafan i have been reading your posts and tell me if I am wrong but I read that you were leaving porn for your own reasons. others brought up race it seems to me. now to be honest with you I will never watch or buy a movie titled “Oh No Theres A Negro In My Mom(Wife, Sister, ect) but if your scenes were in a movie sure I would watch. The industry is playing the race card because thats the titles i see coming out.
wow actual movie titles have to be moderated,,,, any way,,,,justafan Says: Your comment is awaiting moderation.
Mr Long sir I am what my name is justafan i have been reading your posts and tell me if I am wrong but I read that you were leaving porn for your own reasons. others brought up race it seems to me. now to be honest with you I will never watch or buy a movie titled “Oh No Theres A Nxxxo In My Mom(Wife, Sister, ect) but if your scenes were in a movie sure I would watch. The industry is playing the race card because thats the titles i see coming out.
Today at 5:55 p (12 minutes ago)
Justin you should see just by the way the movies are titled how wrong it is. I do not know if you are in any of these films because just by the name it does not interest me. This is by no means a slap at you, just at what i purchase
Julie, about the lobbying, I filled out my 5768 form. It would take me a year to teach you all about the world of non-profits but the 5768 form offers Pink Cross the election to lobby:
Section 501(c)(3) states that an
organization exempt under that section
will lose its tax-exempt status and its
qualification to receive deductible
charitable contributions if a substantial
part of its activities are carried on to
influence legislation. Section 501(h),
however, permits certain eligible section
501(c)(3) organizations to elect to make
limited expenditures to influence
legislation.
If any of you ever want to start a valid non-profit to the adult film industry, I will guide you. I honestly mean that. It is EXTREMELY difficult to become a registered Non-Profit both federally and in the State of California.
Monica, you have the intelligence and drive to start one. Why don’t you do it? Instead of wasting your talents on trying to tear me down, why don’t you do some good and actually HELP the people you work with.
Your web site has some great information but running a non-profit organization and offering physical and tangible help is a whole other ball game. Especially in the porn industry!
To get started, save up about $5,000 and hire a competent non-profit lawyer who can give you sound legal advice. They will advise you about the non-profit process and all the forms and filing fees associated with starting a non-profit. WHICH ARE MANY. One of those tedius forms is the 1023.
I can help you fill out the 1023 form to help you save money at the lawyers. But first get a lawyer and have them do all the work up to the 1023 such as drawing up Articles of Incorporation, Bylaws, Board Members, etc…
Then email me if you want help.
see?i said sane! non-profit??? i laugh at that!!! my mil is born again and her church was started in the slums of baltimore (curtis bay) and now with the 10% of her wages that she has to give they are in Odenton. The point you need to look at is that she for the last 20 years has given TEN PERCENT OF HER EARNINGS. and her church is 20 miles away from where it started and from where it was helping those that needed it.
@slubben: I know all about 501(c)(3) Organizations, and if my comment was not still being moderated on this site that immediately followed Julie’s, you would understand what she is trying to point out. It would take me more than a year to teach you about non-profits. You consistently make false assumptions assuming everyone in the world but you is an idiot. Every time you open your mouth, you speak with an enormous degree of arrogance…and an even larger degree of ignorance! One thing is for certain, we can all always count on you to be condescending.
heres the other thing,,, our rights seperate church and state yet people like this always try to push religion into our rights
There’s a breakdown of the financial records on Mike’s site. It’s not being posted here, but there’s more to it than you’ll admit. All you did is sidestep the question posed to you and babble on and on about helping anyone start a non-profit. No one said they wanted to start a non-profit organization. How much of the money actually goes to helping the women? Where do they stay? What is their time limit on doing things you deem productive before they are refused any more help? Do you have guidelines for people who donate money, especially if they want the donation to go to a specific person?
somewhere in all this mess i read where Shelly said something about “gaping hole” and i got wood sorry
Oh, and Shelley, I went through your 2008 and 2009 financial statements, and I know math and budgeting can be hard, and it would take me a year to teach you all about the world of budgeting and accounting, but I will guide you so that you can spend more than 11% of your annual budget actually helping these people.
Hay Shelley… i kn ow you see my post and I have been moderately tame with you but what am I invisable to you… Hay Shelley werre you by chance a NON IR shooting female talent when you were in the industry..
Does anyone know what her stage name was ??????
justafan — yeah i have shot the movies that the type of titles you are reffering to.. it was a big discussion in my article about that.. all black males have.. check out porn star database and search whatever black male talent you want, but ALL black males have…
It’s a large part of the work out thier for blacks and so, it’s a take it or starve or get a differnt job type deal..
Hay Shelley — i’m curious.. the money for school and the 5k you speak of to hire attorney’s and all that.. was that money you had made trickin and working in the industry?
Not baggin but curious.. one would think you would save up to accomplish plans before you left if possible.. did you? if so then wouldn’t be fair to say you owe everything you have to prostitution and porn.. including your daughter if in fact she was a result of a trick gone array (not to bag on her @ all.. she is definitely an innocent) I’m just curious how you realy account for these things with rational…
We have all in the industry heard this before about “oh porn is evil” blah blah buut yet the people say it on thier 1500.00 mac in thier 400k condo that they just drove up to in thier benz and it was all bought with porn money…
I’m curious if in fact you are the same????
I’m also wondering if Julies figures posted earlier are in fact agreed by you as being representitive of your foundations spending in 09′ … then the question is how much money actually went to stars or ex stars other then you? Whats your salary from the foundation?
$10,075.00 on travel and $1,500 on lobbying … Lobbying???? why would you have to pay off politicians if you are speaking gods will and word???? Shelley… Jesus did not pay off the priest to have the market removed from the temple.. he screamed and yelled and rips the market apart causing such a scene and rage among priest, that he was arrested..
How do you explain paying money out in lobbying when stars have left the industry broken and inflicted and struggle to pay for thier meds??? More and more it’s sounding like pink cross is helping you more so then the stars g/f…
So Maybe you can quit acting like I’m not talking to you and answer some questions huh.. sweet heart I am a star.. you’re collecting money in my name, in monicas name, and every working stars name.. I’m not some slob fuck that has no real right to ask this shit.. “we” are the people you are collecting money in the name of.. So be a big girl and address my fucking questions.. cause this crap of you obviously reading post and yet refusing to answer mine but answer others is getting fuckin annoying
With all respect to Julie (whO I know shot with in the begining of her and my career) is NO longer in the industry… Myself and Monica are… you gonna collect money in our names in part, and make a living doing so while stars are starved out of work then I think I deserve a fuckin reply thank you
Justin,
Don’t sweat Sophia Mounds. She’s SEVERELY mentally ill. You can successfully sue her but there’s nothing to collect because she’s a broke ho. No one takes her seriously at this point. Her boyfriends have included Ryan Knox (she said Cindi was his suger momma) and Steve Driver. She’s called Lee Bang and Sophie Dee the most hated couple in porn. Like I said, she’s severely mentally ill. I’ve gone though WAY worse with her, so just laugh it off, is my advice.
Lord bless them all. I’ve given my best to you these past few days. I’ve been open and honest as best I know how.
If you can’t see the good in what Pink Cross does then I’ll have to leave it in God’s hands.
I trust the LORD.
Now, I have to prepare for Calosha.
PS tell me Shelley,
When you were at your worst fucked off on drugs, new baby girl, pulling tricks and working in the industry, and appearantly damn near suicidel, tell me? What would you had done if your hooking and porn career would had have ended at the worst possible moment? ie; no more income and you got a baby girl and are fucked off on drugs… Shelley do you think Maybe just maybe that could have pushed you over the edge??
Do you think when you went for public assisantace due to having no money and no way to make money on your back, that the state would had taken your daughter? would that had pushed you over the edge…
So now, have you realy thought about the consequences and pain and strive you could possibly cause in many many many peoples lives if you were actually fully succesful in your efforts with implimenting change in US or CA state policy regarding porn???
@ AIM alone you would be putting and are causing strive in many peoples lives that are innocent of any wrong doing minus being un lucky enough to have been working at AIM in this time and point.
What are you going to tell them and there families when they end up on the unemployment line in this jacked economy Shelley.. Hmmm .. what are you gonna tell thier kids when they have no presents under the christmas tree??? Hmmm for every action thier is a reaction sweet heart and your actions might cause some good reaction, but it will cause bad as well..
completely hypothetical Shelley but what if you actions in fact cause change and AIM goes under through having to defend themselves, and then because of a loss of a job and not being able to get another in this shit economy, someone is overcome and takes thier life..
Would you pawn thier blood off on AIM and it’s directors???? or would you be a good chrisitan and take responsibility and pray every day for indirectly/directly causing that porsons death??? that is some real shit in this day and age .. we see it daily on the news… I have never know god to say lobby ceasar to make people listen..
What I’m saying is… spreading god’s word is cool it’s great.. but to do it to the point of becoming ceasar to accomplish it, is not what god has told you to do. it is not what god would want you to do. Lobbying is buying votes !!!!! plain and simple… in gods law that is barring false witness…
I knew you couldn’t answer those questions. You dizzy idiot.
Julie are you serious???? 11% !!!!!
Shelley my ass you have answered honestly … you haven’t answered shit…
I have asked you like four time…
*****************What salary does Pink Cross foundation pay you annually???????? ****************
You have avoided the damn question is all…
and PS last time I checked Cal OSHA is having this hearing @ the bequest of AHF not Pink Cross .. So quit playing like you have some grand part…
I bet you if Julies numbers are right I could get a meeting with government officials as well regarding your 501 chairties spending habits.. 11% goes to the people you collect donations for to supposedly help… what horse shit is that…
11 shitty ass % are you fucking kidding me.. and you are paying money out in lobbying and 11% is all the help stars get..
Thats some weak ass shit almost to thew point of being criminal..
Julie **********you should write a piece and include those numbers and the link to the actual page were the numbers are …. Post it here under a new article… I will promte the hell out of that article if these numbers are correct and then lets see where pink cross foundation goes after that shit goes viral
This is the exact reason people don’t give to chairity, because corrupt fucks keep all the money in admin and it goes home with the directors not the people the money is intended to help.
Tell me SHELLEY,
How were Monica or I for that matter served by you spending all sorts of Pink Cross foundation Money to fly to DC stay their and all for a What ten minute Presentation… it didn’t even look like a coongressional hearing room…
Maybe next time you go it can be to answer questions by Congress as to where you spent the money raised to help stars in transition… Hay by the way SHELLEY how many MALE por stars have you helped in TRANSITION out of the industry… for that Matter HOW MANY BLACK FEMALE STARS ?????? ANSWERS SHELLEY HYOU NEED TO START ANSWERING QUESTIONS WITH REAL ANSWERS NOT PRAYERS
Justin,
I want to start out by asking…since this IS a Shelley Lubben thread…Is she kind of turning anyone else on in a weird way? Shelley your hot!!!
Its no secret that many people don’t like Derek. In my experiences with him ( and a few people have told me its not always like this with him) he’s always been respectful, polite but straight to business. I’ve heard differing opinions from a lot of other people, but I can only comment on my personal experiences with Derek and his company. And I completely understand that you are also giving me feedback on your personal experiences. But I’m not talent(lol not that I could be) so obviously theres a differnt dynamic.
Like I said before, I have no doubt there is some racism out there, but at the same time I don’t think its all about the people within the industry having it out for the black talent. Its quite possible. that my rose colored glasses see it more from an economic standpoint. IR and the all black titles don’t have the mass appeal the big companies get from what they are already making.
I personally don’t think that enough is being done to correctly market to the black community, and there are companies that could turn out the product. ( Slayer, lex) Your pissed because not all the white girls will do IR until it comes time for that big payday or they need to make money when they get shot out and didn’t get a contract. ( And a big majority of these girls believe they can be the next big contract girl) But its not their fault that the compmaies they primarily work for cater to a demographic that doesn’t pay to watch IR. Until a company that makes IR or all black titles steps up to the plate and can start offering the kind of money wicked or vivid does nothing will change.
As I mentioned in the last post, Tyler Perry has managed to get into the pockets of the black consumer, is it that hard to imagine that someone can do the same in porn. Think my man, get outside of the box, I don’t care if you have to get a midget and do a different strokes parody… What will really generate the interest to make the market viable.Casting Monica Foster types… Not the pinky types ( no offence to her) will help. Good porn that used to sell was always about seeing that girl that was so beautiful she was almost untouchable… In all black titles that is few and far between… Its no wonder black consumers crossover… Can you blame them for wanting to see a model type rather than what’s shown to them now in all black titles.
That crossover is what your fighting. Because if all black titles only show a limited market potential, and IR is a slightly better niche ( but still a niche) what do you think happens when Steve H looks at his numbers? I’m sure he sees that he’s outselling all black titles and IR combined. So try and slow down the crossover, find what the consumer really wants. Make the market viable and if the money is there everyone will follow.
Good luck with whatever you do, I feel like I’ve been at an obama rally with all this talk about change. I’m just getting a production company off the ground, and I’ve been told no over and over by all the steves ( H,O and K) samanthas, joys, bills, marc’s…( Literally anyone in power you can think of) But I never gave up.
Hopefully I can pass that along to you.
Please, can everyone just take a chill pill? There’s no need to gang up on Shelley–unless you want to prove her point that we all are possessed by satan.
I don’t think Shelley hides the fact that she wants to reform porn. I personally think she wants to ban it, but she has never claimed it was her or her organization’s mission to do so. Therefore the lobbying contributions make sense. AIM is the same way when it comes to lobbying for free speech!
Its not unusual for non-profit payroll expenditures to significantly outweigh direct payments for a cause. This is especially true when the non-profit is providing a non-tangible service. To my understanding, the Pink Cross is not a bank that gives performers financial grants but its an organization that attempts to mentor and guide performers out of chaotic life circumstances. Financial gift packages may be given, but they are not the centerpiece of what Shelly is providing.
Contributors to the Pink Cross, know exactly what they are doing. They are giving money to the Pink Cross so that they can help porn performers get out of porn. Correlated with that objective, contributors are dedicated to improving conditions for performers in porn. There is no scam here.
And how do you any of you know Shelly makes any kind of net income out of this?
Now, I don’t agree with Shelley’s assumption that ALL porn abuses women, but let’s be fair here. Shelly didn’t come out calling us sluts or scumbags so there’s no need to call her a dirty hag. Yeah, she’s religious but you don’t have to agree with her. I thought the adult industry accepted EVERYBODY. Isn’t that what porn’s all about?
He’s trash, evil, and everything that is wrong with porn today. I wouldn’t trust him or anyone at that pit to watch my dogs.
I don’t know anything about Derek and racism. That’s not where I’m coming from. I’m saying this from a female view point.
Roman,
i knew you were a cool cat.. i agree with you and have been yelling the same things you just touched on.. true enough we need some black barbies up in this bitch.. but at the same time, they aint coming in the industry to shoot the extremely low buget black on black that is crackin up in here..
I think it’s important for people to ask themselves why le’s sean’s and marcus, shoot more IR then they do black on black in thier companies?
thier are a whole lot of reasons for it but for me to even try to asnwer would just be opinion.. and every one has one of those, and most are wrong a lot of the time..
Tyler Perry is in Black Peoples pocket true enough, but his movies are cross over.. with youth today, all nationalities of kids want to walk talk act rap and be like black hip-hop stars.. and youth have nothing but buying power, as most have no bills, and thier money is spent socially..
My path wa altered in 06′ but I din’t find out until late 07′ / early 08′ by then it was too late for me to make the adjustemnts i would had had to have made to ever think about production or owning a company in the industry. I never wanted to be anything but talent, and porn was never meant to be anything but a really well paying job while I was in school.
I agree with not giving up though.. unless of course the cost are going to outway the reward..
Black women have nothing to come to in this industry.. they can stay home start a site and make a butt load more money now days, more so then they ever would if they moved to the SFV and started here as talent. many girls have proved that. Black women though have been the true underdog in american society for the longest time and i think it is ingrained in most to not do adult as it just gives people more rocks to throw at them and they are bloodied enough from the rocks that have been thrown at them for decades.
True enough though. part of the problem is that companies WONT put out the money to make a quality black on black movie, just as they do a white on white feature. All agents have recruiters and so you have to ask yourself what instructions have agents given to there recruiters that prevents the recruiters from recruiting black girls that could rival the top white girls in looks, body, and sex appeal?????
The agents have no interest because they know the major studios have no interest in shooting quality black films.. Afro-centric use to be the biggest black shooting comapny in the world. They had black girls in contract and all.. Vivid had to compete.. look at porn star database and search byron Long and lex and sean and marcus and jake steed, and julian St. jox they all worked features for vivid and major white shooting companies.. they did it a lot
looking back Vivid built it’s self off the work of blacks. there longest running contract star ever supposedly was a black girl.. So wheres the loyalty.. wheres the work.. wheres the promotions… Afro-centric sold to metro and then metro as we knew it folded and then vivid promptly stopped shooting most blacks..
So you have to wonder.. were companies not making money off black movies or did the competition just go away and the people that continued with movies just decide to stop making black movies because they didn’t have to anymore????
Black people watch porn just like white people, but the porn they want is low quality in the grand skeem of things compared to the movies like pirates and the any number of 20-30 features that come out a year that have not black person one in them.. Hay studio’s black people can afford DVD players now days !!!!!
You are right though blacks need to be marketed in a new light and in quality product that rivals the best of the white on white product. So the question is, is why are’nt the black owned studios doing it.. even if it was An IR feature… hmmmm … I’ll tell you why.. becaues they dont want to step on the toes of those that are still handeling em… second because DVD is dieing and fast.. it will never go away totally but it’s dieing..
Web is the money maker and features are not coheasive to the web.. scenes are..
people keep saying I need to start a company and make the change.. I say bullshit.. i say the black people that already own companies and have made the big money in this bitch need to do it and start looking out for the black people. ie; they aint got no business telling me I need to do what them themselves have had the time money and oppurtunity to do and have failed to do it for whatever reason..
people always talking to me about how it need to be done but yet they are in the position to do it and refuse to. Damn that ( I wasn’t talking about you)..
You know how many black owned companies shot me in my career spanning 12 years and shooting over 700 scenes???? 1 west coast and that was back in the day 97′ and 1 time in 08′ and it was a blow bang. I aint never shot for lex, sean, justin or marcus.. thats how much blacks are helping and promoting blacks.. know how many black people I have shot for in general (directors) 3 diana devoe, vennesa blue and tony flush.. wait four alexander devoe… wait five brian pumper..
In general hell no older black stars aint helping younger black stars with the struggle of becoming someone.. thats what young brothas and sistas are dealing with, and yelling about.. a white side of the industry that dont want them.. a white side of the industry that wantes to pay them less and use them in racially explosive title films and a black side that rarely hires blacks versus other nationalities, and when they do hire em it’s normally a racially explosive titled film..
Man when the last time white cats had to go to worrk and have no choice but to either be in a movie called trailer trash bootie or not work.. How about a parody called “cracker biscuit” .. white people in the industry dont have to deal with that shit… So they dont have to choose work or not work.. thats a black problem.. let’s see a company tell there asian female contract star that they are gonna do a movie called “nip fuck” and then have the implicatrions that if she refuses she might loose her work stability..
i bet you money if all companies that shot asian flicks or used asian girls were all naming titles like that ole girl would be deciding to star in “nip fuck” because if she didn’t she would no she would starve.. play the game or starve.. true enough racially explosive titles are not restricted to blacks but they are damn sure extremely more prevailent.. (side note now watch someone make a movie called “nip fuck”)
enough of reading me, but this is real shit i’m spitting.. it’s pissin people off because it is so real.. i was in a wicked feature (low budget) called “behind the 8 ball” like i said you aint and never will see stormy daniels do no movie caled “cue ball queens” hell no it’s derogatory against whites..
origen01
if porn accepted everybody then we wouldn’t be talking about girl refusing to work with people because of there skin color..
Stil waiting for shelley to answer weather or not she gets a salary from pink cross and how much it is.. I highly doubt she is doing it for free.. Obviously she has a nice little travel expendature..
Dont know how you could call it anything but a scam at that.. She collects donations in the name of helping stars and then what gives them advice???? She was a drug addict and prostitute.. what advice does she really have to give.. stars can get that for free from thier family and friends..
she is bank rolling money to have a site speak to politicians and the powers that be to essentially wipe away are testing facility and industry.. how exactly is she helping???? I dont see it.. many people in porn love thier jobs.. who is shelley lubben to tell them no you have to change..
funny how she wasn’nt yelling bad aim and porn and prostitution is evil when she was making her lving doin it… now she makes her living collecting money under the pretence that she is “HELPING” porn stars get away from this evil industry..
I and others would had takin a whole lot more stock in her message if she had ben yelling it and taking the hit financially while she was bank rolling in the fuckin industry..
People like me are on her because she wants to effect our lives in what she is convienced is a good way but many like the way it is minus the economy.. why does she make stars break connections with friends in the industry or give up sources of income like there web sites even if they are’nt shooting for it anymore in order to be eligible for her to help them????
Sounds like because she wants them to be totally away from everyone and stripped of outside influence so she can insert her influence alone.. you know david karesh did the same thing.. “no you have to sell everything and move to this compound” sound like waco and johanusburg all over again..
Dude, a if a white girl doesn’t want to work with a black performer, that’s her business IMHO. Her preference should be respected–it doesn’t mean that black male talent are worthless. And brothers aren’t exactly out of demand if you feel what I’m saying.
Shelley promises performers a path out of destructive circumstances. A lot of them don’t have friends or family to help.
Yes her approach is often religious, but I don’t think its that way for all performers.
Do I agree with her approach? NO! But we shouldn’t cuss her out and call her names. We can challenge her without insulting her.
And I’m not sure black people purchase as much porn as whites. I hate to admit it but black people tend to have lower disposable incomes than whites and often have conservative attitudes (ie church-going). I’ve love to see a marketing study though as I’m just going by what I see.
@ Darrah,
I can’t comment on all of the inudendo that’s cast at Derek Hay because its simply not part of my experience in dealing with the man, and that part of his story deserves to be told too.
I’m not here to defend L.A direct models or Derek Hay.
But I stand by my comments as being 100% accurate.
Julie – Good going on researching those numbers – I was shocked to read them – shocked and saddened to know that the women who need those donations aren’t getting them.
Justin – Lubben’s stage name was “Roxy” (not sure on the last name).
Lubben – I have no desire to start a non-profit.
Getting back to Shelley’s message:
“Dear loved ones,
I want you to know, I LOVE YOU. I am fighting hard for your safety, health and protection. I will never believe you have been placed on this earth to be a “porn star”. I know you are intelligent and beautiful and created for greater things. I want to make it clear that I am not out to hurt you but am on a mission to expose the truth about the porn industry and to see all of you receive better opportunities in life”.
Implicit in this statement is the message that Shelley intends to eradicate the porn industry in the name of God and Love. She says we were not meant to be porn stars, but we are porn stars, so isn’t that statement wrong? I think none of us should personally be defined by our profession, and that we all more than just that (hopefully), but the sex industry is an inevitable product of free-market Capitalism.
It seems she’s trying to destroy the porn industry and then saying she’s “working” on alternatives. That’s like bombing a village in order to save it. How in the world are we gonna receive better opportunities in life? Try putting “porn star” on your job application resume and see where it gets you.
@ Justin
Thanks…you seem like a cool cat too… Let the bromance begin! Lol just fucking with you.
We’re very close to being on the same page for the most part.
I was going to mention Heather Hunter in that last post but i lost my train of thought. But your 100% right…she had crossover value and Vivid ate that shit up and took it to the bank.
I don’t totally agree with you on the crossover value of Tyler Perry’s movies. I’m sure there’s some, but the youger audience you mentioned ( white kids influenced by hip hop) don’t get that from one of his movies.. His movies depict an ethnic version of the american dream… With a lot of comic relief, but morally sound with a lot of emphsis on closeness of family and strengh in personal relationships.
So your question why… What’s the real reason the gorgeous black women don’t come out to work for the production companies doing the all black titles. ( I hope Monica will jump in and answer this for us, lol and btw yeah I’ll be chasing her around the conventions begging her to go to dinner with me) But if I had to speculate it would be because the product coming out right now is just so low grade and awful. Why would a beautiful and classy woman want to be a part of it… An old saying that comes to mind is ” it would be like putting an earring on a pig” A complete waste of time for a serious model type.
I think there are many beautiful black women that would get into adult ( I dated a black stripper a couple years back that would have) but when it comes down to it, they make more money in the clubs, escorting or with a site. Its economics man.
And yes… You should welcome the opportunity to try and do things the right way… Pave the path and be a visionary.. The other guys you mention.. Marcus, sean, lex… Those guys aren’t here talking about the problem, but you are.
I think you have a blueprint… Make it happen. I’m not calling you out, but moving to another country and shooting IR scenes for a website isn’t going to accomplish anything.
@ Shelley
Although I don’t agree with everything that you say, I appreciate the love and prayers that you send my way. Obviously we are talking here because I’m a little bit of a ” bad boy”, but I look forward to praying with you, especially if your wearing that tank top… I know we will be praying for different things, and its a slightly perverted fascination I have with you. But I will never pass up an opportunity to pray with you…
Bromance? I don’t wanna see that movie!
@ Jeremiah
Cha ching, now that its out… Gay movie title that does huge numbers.
I’m sure it will. Send me the residuals for it, otherwise keep me out of it!
I guess that’s an all black gay romance? Or maybe an all gay incestuous romance.
By Jove, I’ve got it!:
“Bromance: A story about two gay, black brothers who decide to dump, first women, then men, and then get incestuous.”
Directed by Chi Chi La Hughes. “It’s ‘Taboo’ with a dark twist”, say twisted critics!
LOLOL you guys are bad… Roman.. thanks for the love… LOL and I just got done watching chuck and larry .. for real.. LOLOL..
Jeremy.. airtimeguy@yahoo.com hit me.. I can’t remeber what post yours was in LOL
@ Jeremiah,
Whatever someone makes it to be… I’m sure it would have a following in the gay community on name recognition alone… But I wouldn’t count on any residuals unless you get busy doing something with it.
@ Jeremiah
As fucked up as that sounded… At least you just said something fresh… Not the same old bullshit. Now your thinking.. Pieces of what you said could make money. That’s all I’ve been trying to say.
You failed to read any of the articles, and just like all the other unstable porn performers, not STARS. You predictably freaked the f*ck out. What a surprise, if anyone critisizes his statements or calls him on what he wrote. Instead of being calm and just simply asking why, he goes all Jeremy Steel on my ass. Why? Because he has to make himself feel beter then somebody, so he has made me, that somebody.
I meant I would take a nicer stance sinse Steve Ryders suicide, since porn performers have such thin skins.
Hahahahahahaha — thanks for the humor Justin Pain in my ass. But keep on with the negative nanny shit, Im sure it will take you places, like prison or deathrow? Keep up the good work… No really, then you can have male bounding time with Jeremy and you can both sit there in his rotting apartment to figure out a way to sue me. To get some personal power, which is something neither of ypu have in real life. Welcome to cyber bullying 101… Thats a really productive way to live your lifes. Jeremy has made it a career, but will you Justin if thats even your name.
Because guess what? That masterpiece of yours is old news, and was old news when I attempted to make it interesting and not so f-ing biased. Cause this country is ful of that one sided biases b.s. I don’t even care who you are, I rewrote that for the readers. My rewrite wasent to serve your over inflated ego. So just get that out of your head. I to want my readers to enjoy their experience in reading. I guess your self inflated ego just missed the story regarding Steve Drivers suicide and how bad it can be for male performers. Just another ungrateful porn star. Go figure. Have a fun time at the beach eating sand. Justin who? Who does what? Famouse? Who?
Thanks Roman, I’ve given out valuable ideas, before.
I’m all one side of the brain and that side’s insane (with ideas).
People talk shit, then take my shit. Shit. But I’m used to it.
To Roman:
As for why women of “my type” don’t work for the ethnic companies more in their features – well, in all honesty I don’t think any studios liked me that much.
I might not have been attractive enough for them, or maybe not a good enough performer – maybe it had to do with my agents at the time keeping my rate at the same level of my caucasion counterparts…
I only worked for West Coast Productions twice.
I only worked for Mercenary Pictures once.
I only worked for Black Ice once.
This was all between March of 2008 and the beginning of 2009.
I worked more for “white” companies overall than black companies – not by choice – that is simply how my booking went.
When I was actively shooting I really wanted to work a lot, but I just didn’t have the right package. I did everything right – I marketed myself, I had a decent agency, I kept myself in good shape, I was professional on sets, etc. However it wasn’t enough.
For black companies, I was too thin (even though I have a great ass and natural 34c tits) – blacks don’t want to admit it but many DO prefer women with a mulotto look and who are “thick” (or even just plain fat), and for white companies, I was just too black.
I kind of think the mainstream porn industry only wants about 1 or 2 black female performers “of note” at a time – right now it seems to be Misty Stone – who in turn reminds me appearance wise of Heather Hunter. You currently have Jada Fire and Marie Luv still working in “white” and “black” porn – Lavish Styles is making her way in as well, but really that’s about it.
My only real choice to continue in adult entertainment is to start my own studio / production company which is what I’m trying to do, however Justin is right – I’d have already done it by now if I worked at the rates and frequency of my white counterparts, however I’m just a mere webcam girl who does a a few other things on the side, so it will take me a long time to get the funding.
Life’s hard – but anything worth while doesn’t come easy I suppose.
Regardless I’d rather stay true to myself and not ask for handouts or feel I need to repent in the name of sour grapes like you know who.
And while I’m on this train of thought this morning, I need to make this last comment for today specifically to Lubben being that I anticipate she may read this:
To Shelly Lubben:
I don’t hate you – however this is what you need to understand.
There is a major difference between you and I. I WANTED to go far as an adult actress (I made an active choice that I was OK with) where as I don’t think you really ever thought it through as you more so “found yourself” within the adult entertainment field (though it was still your choice to be there).
Considering your circumstances at that time in your life, versus my own – it’s like night and day.
You had an opportunity at the time when you entered porn where you had many things virtually HANDED to you on a silver platter. You were, and still are a beautiful, white, blond woman who was probably making a ton of money and who had people wanting to work with you left and right.
At that time, you had the potential to be a Jenna Jameson, Brianna Banks, etc.
Your look was a look which was “in demand” where as my look is one that is shunned.
I have shot under 35 scenes total – not because that’s what I wanted – but because those were the only scraps that were offered to me at an acceptable rate.
I entered the porn industry with a goal, and when I found that I wasn’t able to reach my goal (and I can’t believe I’m saying this here) – I became bitter for a while – because I really tried very hard – and I thought to myself “damn, why aren’t I good enough”.
My experience was different from yours, because while you suffered from low self esteem due to what you perceived as physical abuse or humiliation (I actually think that you may have been too sensitive overall to be a porn actress), I suffered from low self esteem, because I just didn’t get booked for work and dealt with racism from time to time on sets.
My low sense of self worth at that brief time, for a while, drew me into hanging out with people that were into drugs and drinking a bit too much because I made the CHOICE to want numb the pain of feeling like a failure for not being able to reach a level of being an adult entertainer of which I initially sought.
It wasn’t “porn” however that made me feel that way or live an unhealthy lifestyle – it was circumstances which are in actuality rooted in racism, prejudice and the currently perceived economics of the adult marketplace.
The main difference between you and I though, is that I snapped out of it. I funneled my bitterness and unhappiness into my Getting Into Porn websites, my independent “Monica Foster” sites, and now my “Monica At Home” broadcast.
I don’t ask anyone for anything and I don’t want anyone to feel sorry for me because that’s just silly – you’ve been on the same “boo hoo” train in my opinion a little bit too long.
Whether I’d been more successful as an adult actress or not, I’d still feel that certain changes within the adult industry need to made, however I wouldn’t ever attack an ENTIRE industry and state “Porn needs to go away forever because I just don’t like it and I got hurt”.
I really feel that the issue of racism in many ways IS relevant to your stance, because as a black woman who entered the porn industry, my experience over all and the the opportunities of which were available to me were and are completely different from yours.
When you exited porn, and decided to go into the religious arena, and now into the political arena – though you may not want to admit it to yourself, a big part of the reason you get the attention, acceptance and sympathy that you receive is due to you being a blond haired light eyed white woman of which many men who listen to you and follow you want to take to bed.
I really think Shelley, that you could be successful in anything you would have chosen to do in life because you have an advantage granted to you by our society due to what you look like – if you’d wanted to walk away from porn and enter the sales world, you’d have done great and no one would have cared about your past.
I think that you really don’t know what it is to really really have to work for anything or to struggle for your dreams, because I don’t think you ever really had any solid career goals.
For me working in the adult entertainment industry is a career goal where as for you it never was – so please take the time to understand that and realize that not everyone thinks that a past trauma is rooted in “evil” – it’s just all about choices we makes, which sometimes aren’t the right choices for us.
@ Monica
Are you kidding me? Your gorgeous!
agrees with Roman i just looked up pictures and the high check bones and the eyes give an Egyptian look hell you could have been a mainstream model
Sophia Mounds — self infalted ego.. you stupid bitch (now i meant it) i have seen pics of you and your ridiculous tits.. looks whos talking about ego.. you couldn”t make it in porn so you write about it. You are probably the same type of girl I talk shit about.. did you do IR Sophia or were black people beneath you???
You’re a joke and guess what baby… I don’t need to figure out a way to sue you.. you created the reason
“he meant” you don’t know what the fuck I mean.. you dont know me.. you dont associate with me.. and as if I would associate with you.. I’ve already hear the stories about your certifiable loony ass.
You’re a shitty writer Sophia.. if you wanted your readers to know what I said then you should had copy and pasted in whole.. not cut and paste and cut and past to serve what you wanted them to hear and in what order..
Fortunately statutes are a year.. I will be in LA i will file the summons and complaint, and then I will serve subpeona to places I know have your real identity. I am a person of action. Just FYI and tottin my own horn, you can’t take my star away from me know matter what you say.. LOL as if (sophia talks and it is so) LOL.. I have fans on every contenant and in hundreds of countries..
My ego is more then in check thier sweetie and if you had ever bothered to even try to know me, then you would know what of my favporite saying when people try to blow me up bigger then life is to say “i aint no on special, i’m just a dude like you”. So you take your very uneducated and poor writing skill ass back to the drawing board on that one.
How do you figure I’m gonna end up in jail??? where the fuck did that come from.. I think that right thier shows your pschycosis.. Maybe you should start imagining yourself in a court room, cause that is something I can guarantee you will happen. It’s not a threat, and from your post, and your article you appear to be the only real internet warrior here ..
Who is Justin Long?? that cat that stood up for whats right and said fuck the people that would shit on black people in the industry.. you have an issue with that you washed up has been?? then fuck you too..
Who is justin long, the cat that was flying around the country not even three months ago shooting porn for the top companies in the world.. Famous??? yep Humble? yes good heart??? yep
Fiunny how you need to capitalize off steve driver to qrite a story about mens plight in porn.. tell me was the article about men in porn or black men in porn? Steve was a black man that had black men problems.. didn’t know him really at all but can with 120% certainty tell you he did. Know why i know? Cause i am a proud black man that has been where he was at.. starting out in porn…
And lets be very clear about this.. I have no problem with critizism.. but what you did in that article was litterally inject words in my mouth “he meant” that is puttings words in my mouth, and no one speaks for me but me. You were flagerant and had intent and malice in mind when you altered my words and in bad faith re-arranged my words for your readers.
This is the typr of shit tabloids and papers get sued over and you think you are immune.. I haven’t built my rep with my fans as telling the truth and being honest so you can rip it apart because you as a white female (originally from porn) cant or is unwilling to comprehend what black people deal with on a daily basis. Your blinded by your own skin pigment. I further believe that you have probably No inclination to try to relate or understand because you probably were one of the girls that had the same actions when you were laying on your back for a living
either way I dont care because you neither make policy or effect my cause or it’s outcome. You my dear are trully insigificant. Me?? I could go back to work tomorrow if I wanted and within 2 months be back to business as usual.. you, older fatter, tit’s saggin even more, probablly could get a few big titties shoots and some MILF work off your has been name and then you would be discarded like before. It’s the name of the game with women in the show.
LOLOL you have done 31 dvds in your whopping 3 year career???? and you are talking shit sayin who am I??? who are you??? In fact I know who you are !!!! we have met had conversations and got along.. you were repped by jim south originally and that is how you met jeremy.. I have had lunch with you for god sake.. At least it’s nice to see you took “some” balck cock in your career… got to wonder if that was merely for money though. especially when you call me writing a piece on Black people being discriminated agaisnt in porn, being a negative nanny..
First I dont babysit.. so I am not a nanny
second .. bad shit happens in the worrld thier sophia ..
Maybe you haven’t seen it as much because you are white and have a poussy and big tits.. but black people feel it all the time…
see thats why laws had to be created US wide to protect peoples civil rights.. it was a big movemnet back in the 50-60-70’s … you know thier was this dude with the initals MLK he spoke of injustices too, but I guess according to you, he would had been a negative nanny as well.. funny I see you right here and bitch and complain and at me and others but yet you don’t label yourself the same way.
The fact is I could give a flying fuck what your crazy ass labels me.. I have been called worse by peolpe just like you.. one nice thing came out of this. At least i know who I can serve a subpeona to besides AIM to get your real identity so I can do an intellius check and get your current addy, so I can have you served..
have a good day…
Justin you should not get in such a rage over this chic. I may be stepping out of line as a fan but i have read lots on here and trust me this chic is not in her right mind. I will say yes she has done IR and I can send you to the tube sites to show it but I will not, I will only direct you towards Steve Driver’s site because she is on there!
God Sophia — now the memories are flooding back to me.. I have seen you many many times at world modeling.. Now putting two and two together it’s all making since.. I specifically remember you.. you would sit at skippys desk a lot when he wasn’t there..
You were a proclaimed lesbian… then you started fucking guys for money.. then appearantly you started fucking “black” guys later for money and then you went away shooting “1” MOVIE IN 09′ … wow talk about a sell out.. I remeber you preaching you were a lesbian and would never fuck guys in jims office if I aint mistaken..
And true with Jeremy’s statement, you were a crazy off the wall bitch even back then.. I remember.. it was a common and well known fact… everyone knew it.. I was also right in the fact that the titties look a little effected by gravity… Sorry shit happen .. my balls are are effects too..
JEREMY Wow, what a week for back stabbing huh Jeremy first s and now the bleached blond … with a claim to fame of 31 dvds and large saggy tits…
Justafan — i’m not in a rage.. I’m totally calm.. I write what is on my mind.. i’m doing laundry and chatting in like three different places right now.. I just told her what I think of her.. Shit filing a suit is 35.oo and $30.00 to have her served.. it’s worth it just to show people and prove that you cant get away with crap like she did…
It’s amusing to me.. 70.oo bucks a little time but a whole lot of satisfaction… the ends out way the means.. it’s not anger.. maybe thats what you see but i call it just setting someone straight, that is confused and delerious to the reality of the world
I think she said to you she’s a lesbian because she told me she’s not into black guys. She said she’d never work with them, but then she did. I guess she needed the money. She also kept telling me we Jews got to stick together. I said that’s fucked up, plus I’m only have Jew and half a Jew does not a Jew make. Plus I had communion and celebrate X-mas n’ Santa Claus. I totally missed out on bar mitfaz and a lot of cash, which totally sucked though. Saggy tits? Whatchu talkin about, Justin? Those are serious bolt ons. I have no idea how many scenes she’s done, nor do I care. The first time I saw her in Jim South’s office all she kept talking about was wanting to fuck me. She told me she liked girls but never told me she was a lesbian.
@joe know: Yes, rock stars actually do get STDs while working for employers…they’re called record labels. Who do you think cut Tommy Lee a paycheck, the women he slept with on tour… or Hollywood Records? Porn stars also get STDs when not in front of the camera, maybe going to a director’s after a shoot and giving him a BJ, or at a party representing Wicked at AVN. Now, if she gets the STD in one of these ways, is that while in porn or in her personal life? And what is this “industry line standard” shit except a false asumption that I have some motive to see things a certain way. I’m not in the adult industry and have no interest in how the decisions go one way or another…but I do statistical anyalysis professionally, and I know when someone is usuing false logic, conducting flawed experiments and is misinterpreting a data set. The bottom line is you can’t count positive tests in the first 3 months of working, as conclusive proof they contracted the STD in the employ of porn, if the disease can take up to 3 months to show up on a test, because the margin of error will be too fucking large to have any statistical meaning. If you can’t get that through your head, you need to go get an education…and not from the University of Phoenix. Maybe you should change your moniker to “joe doesn’t know statistics or the scientific method.”
I never said what I was for or against, so you are making the false assumption that that I am the enemy of your cause. You can use the information I’m giving you however you want, and either stop throwing around bullshit numbers that make you look fucking stupid, or find a way to start presenting data accurately that supports your cause and will not be so easy to tear down…you’re choice. If you just want to whine and bitch that your numbers SHOULD mean something, well that doesn’t really mean a damn thing.
Also, there is a difference between having to pay for a service, even if it is a mandated service like auto insurance or an AIM test, and misappropriating donations given to a charity for personal promotion of its founder. You are making up a correlation that doesn’t exist. The only thing laughable is your idiotic attempt to compare them. You must be male talent because you’re certainly not a rocket scientist?
Blame it on God, blame it on the producer, blame it on the industry…blah, blah. What if the mandatory condom law passes, and the rate of disease and deaths increases because of the lack of disclosed testing? Will you then take personal responsibility for those increases in disease and deaths, or will you once again try to place the blame in someone else’s hands. Do you believe in the numbers Shelley Lubben throws around enough that you will put your dick on the line, and agree to cut the thing off if her interpretation of the numbers prove to be wrong and the new number of cases concerning deaths and diseases don’t drop if/when the condom bill passes? Do you trust her enough to put your own dick on the line, yes or no?
Good points Cocaine_Inc,
I’ve been having more conversations with “Deep Throat” who’s confirmed “Joe Know” as being S, who was fired from AIM for Stealing. It’s disturbing to imagine a guy who was always so cool to me and a pleasure to talk to, and always doing an excellent job of taking blood without any pain or complications, turning into such a psycho nut taking constant vicious stabs at me, AIM and the industry people he used to serve. It yet again just goes to show ya that people and things are not always what they seem. And just as much as the world may talk and spread shit about someone or talk about someone like they’re the shit, things are not always so fucking simple, static and black and white.
s got fired for stealing? I thought it was a fight? damn!! I ain’t naming names ,but he was cool as fuck! and took care of people need in this industry, when people needed something. Who fired him Coca_inc?. And why we are on the subject of diseases, Some of these girls (NEW) need to know the diffrence between HERPES or HEMORIODS! scary thursday on a shoot and I did a gential exam and got on girl “bounced” and replaced. I am not going to get a “director” or a produdction company and me and I .infected with checking down between those thighs!!
I say ….shut the mofo down and move to LV or Miami and increase testing over there and catch and cure the std’s before it spreads to other performers. Condoms are not going to work for one thing, 2 the sales will drop, 3 underground production in columbia with coca will occur. GET OUT OF CALIFORNIA, before its too late. and keep sales office here. Later!!!
OSHA’s response to the argument that porn valley will export itself out of California is that it isn’t relevant or their problem. Condoms don’t work period, as a guarantee of protection. Diseases can be spread outside the area where a cock is covered. Also HIV is microscopic and the openings in condoms are much, much bigger. The chances of catching HIV from an infected person with or without a condom is extremely unlikely. If performers want to be safe, stop taking immunosuppressive drugs or working with addicts. If you really want to be safe, don’t do porn and take the bus instead of driving. I wonder if porn valley moves if Shelley’s crusade would follow.
I willsay this one time only. I AM NOT S FROM AIM.
You have gone way too far this time Jerrry. You have dragged someones name through the mud to safisfy your own ego. Shame on you.
You owe S an apology!
Where’ve you been “Joe”?
Like we don’t have enough problems in our industry with nuts trying to make condoms mandatory in porn. Now, Shelley Lubben is speaking to Congress to “help” porn stars. Great! This all needs to stop. Pretty soon I’ll have nothing to do PR for, if this keeps up.
WOW….I’m reading through this thread, and I’m basically laughing my ass off at the manipulation, the lies, and the outright bullcrap that Shelley Lubben is trying to pull.
At least, it would be fully if she wasn’t maligning a real person (namely, Monica Foster).
I mean, since when did a woman who hasn’t done a scene in FIFTEEN YEARS, and only did 15 credited scenes at that, in the span of just ONE YEAAR, get to lecture a recently active performer who has done twice as many scenes in double the time?? I didn’t know that getting “saved by Jesus” gave you such powers, Madame Lubben.
Secondly, I’d say that Monica’s organizations (GettingIntoPorn/GettingOutOfPorn) have been far, far more effective and far more relevant in actually helping performers get the assistance and support they need than anything the Pink Cross Foundation has ever done.
If anything, it’s Monica who deserves the charitable tax exemption, not Lubben, whose “services” amount to nothing more than a Ponzi scam using the industry to get paid just as she used her gangbangs as “Roxy”. But, I guess that women like Monica don’t get quite the pull in Congress and high places, don’t they??
Oh, and as for all this talk of “debates” and “discussion”: gee, Reverend Shelley, but wasn’t it you who was itching for a debate with the likes of Nina Hartley on the mandatory condom issue, only to run like a scared chicken when Nina actually called your bluff?? I guess that you’re setting your sights downward now, since you think that the Black girl….errrrrrrrr, Monica, can be more easily handled than Nina or Julie Meadows?? And BTW…exactly how many Black performers or other performers of color have you or your organization “saved”??
Or…maybe it’s just the basic fact that Monica does what she does simply FOR FREE and out of the goodness of her heart, not out of a desire to get paid or to impose her myopias on others. Personal accountablilty, Ms. Lubben…it is a moral value you might want to learn…and it puts her a hell of a lot closer to Jesus than any prayer, lecture, or “witnessing” you may offer.
There is real, and there is fake. Read between the lines, Shelley, of where you stand and where Monica Foster and Julie Meadows stand in that.
Anthony