They had a FIRE DRILL in the middle of it!
Everyone had to clear the building and go across the street!
Who do you spot in the crowd? I see Joanna Angel Pic 3, Mark Kernes pic 1 & 2, what might be the back of Michael "pornlaw" Fattorosi Pic 2. Is that Tod Hunter in the suit Pic 2? Handsome man. Maybe Porno Dan if his hair is blonde again in pic 1..
(Thanks for the pics "S")
It’s a conspiracy to show that porno people are running wild on the streets causing chaos and must be shut down!
maybe
Also, to correct you, it wasn’t in the middle of it. It was before it started. I stayed away a bit longer than I should, had to take a wiz at the Federal building and then they searched me as a possible terrorist and told me no cameras allowed. So I said,
“Here, hold my camera. I gotta go take a leak. I’ll be right back”. By the time I got back the meeting had already been going on. There were two lone seats left, one next to Steve Nelson and a student doing a research paper on the event.
I see in photo 3 Spiegler is chasing some black booty.
It also looks in photo One that Porno Dan is proving to his friends that he can walk a straight line.
The lady in white in front of him is who I referred to as the “ringleader” of this, over-all, well behaved circus, who told me we’re here to interpret laws and work towards a workable solution.
And remember, “workable” has the word “work” in it, ok? Thank ye.
HAHAHAHAHA
What a fucking joke, these clowns can’t even properly plan a meeting without being interrupted by some random drilling, and yet they dream of policing a big, complex and diverse industry like the adult. Better luck in your next life.
Jeremy and others who went to this meeting, you guys had noble intentions, but by now you know it was a waste of time and energy.
Drill baby, drill.
HAHAHAHAHA
Well, Colonel, noble intentions or not, I think we should prepare and fight those trying to gangfuck (or “improve”???) the porno business in the name of justice, just in case this shit isn’t like a Y2K dud scare. Besides, I found the meeting interesting and it gave me a chance to pretend I’m in college debate class again. It may all also be analagous to 2012, and if disaster hits it the porn industry it could be because of someone or thing’s noble or not so noble intentions as well as because we didn’t do enough to determine our own destiny.
Being a conspiracy “nut”, btw, I was concerned about this drill, as I was told it was by a security guard. Conspiracy nuts who’ve studied inside jobs know there’s always a coincidental drill right before an actual event the same time and place of the drill, so when I hear about drills I get the fuck away.
Surprised Dingle(Kernes) didnt pass out on the way out. Was Porno Dan sober, or hungover? Why was there someone from AVN there anyway, oh wait, since the “legit” part of the Adult crowd was there they had to go, if not it could hurt Fishbein’s legal ads. Papa Smurf send anybody?
Yes, that’s me talking to Michael Fattorosi in picture 2. Kernes is pictured between us but he was actually a couple feet to my right. Fattorosi is blocking Angela Aspen, who was right in front of me.
Porno Dan is leading the parade in picture 1 and the tall guy behind him is Moose from Girlfriends Films. The fellow in the back in the blue shirt is Ron Lin from the Los Angeles Times, who was taking extensive notes and talking to people to get their names right throughout the meeting.
I also noticed Joanna Angel, Diane Duke and Joy King in Picture 3.
“They had a FIRE DRILL in the middle of it!”
OK, who did it?
Jeremy Steele says:
‘Noble intentions or not, I think we should prepare and fight those trying to gangfuck (or improve) the porno business in the name of justice.’
That’s the thing, my friend, the adult industry cannot be controlled and/or policed. Period. There’s nothing CAL OSHA, AHF or any of their co-conspirators can do that hasn’t been tried and failed nearly 30 years ago. Why do you think the state of California legalized pornography in the mid 80s? The answer is because after years of kicking themselves in the ass and wasting millions of dollars of the state budget, they finally came to terms with the fact the adult industry is too big, too complex and too diverse to be controlled and policed; and let’s not forget there were no such things as the internet, affordable video cameras, editing softwares and hordes of freelance pornographers in the 80s, all of which is overwhelming nowadays. Besides, the state of California was the golden state in the 80’s and had a healthy budget, while today they can’t even afford to pay their school teachers, bus drivers and fire men. So if you do a simple math, you’ll realize they can never, ever police the adult industry in California, no matter how bad they want to, no matter how hard they try and no matter how much they bark at the moon and eat shit. It just cannot be done, but let them try and embarrass themselves some more and feel the bitter taste of failure.
Hopefully you’re right, or that at least OSHA will have endless subcommittee meetings on the subject until at least 12/21/12.
Did you know Governor Schwarzenegger once said that his two favorite pastimes are “pumping and humping” (I’m not making this up)? I understand he’s a big porn fan, too. Why didn’t Ahnuld testify that he don’t wanna see OSHA Brand condoms on performers’ cocks?
On behalf of California and porn fans everywhere he should tell the AHF: “Fuck You, Asshole”.
Colonel,
I agree with your point that state and local authorities cannot police Adult but it seems to me that the outcome of the OSHA hearings would influence the course of tort liability suits. If there is a clear regulatory regime in regards to Adult, (and despite what joe says, there is not) production companies could be significantly more vulnerable to SUCCESSFUL civil action as a result of clear negligence.
I’m not a lawyer but it seems like that’s why a lot of people are concerned. A lot of performers would not hesitate to sue a production company if they were strapped for cash…
ORIGEN01,
I resqectfully disagree with your statement regarding clear regulatory reging regarding adult production.
Here is what was said at the hearing…Deb Gold
“I’f just like to make something very clear.Right now the existing standard mandates the use of condoms, so people who have come here and think that we’re arguing
about whether we’re going to mandate the use of comdoms need to understand that the current status quo is that if theres blood or other potentialy infectious material, you need to PREVENT contact with that and the employee’s eyes, skin, so people just need to understand that. I know people keep talking about it as though we’re thinking about NEWLY mandated condoms and people have to understand that what we’re trying to do here is talk about whether something new can be worded out in the standards that would protect employees as well as whats currently mandated.”
It doesnt get any clearer than that. OSHA has stated that the current law applies, and they have cited about a dozen companies(aside form th 16 AHF complaints) and every single one has been held up.
ORIGEN, you are the first one here to get it. I was begining to think that nobody was going to put this together. Of course getting OSHA to say this is going to be of great assistance to the upcoming lawsuits for their ‘clear neglignece’ Actually, I thought you were on to this a few weeks ago in another thread. Not a single one of these guys here ever came close to figuring this out. Well done Origen.
Finaly, someone who has connected the dots. THANK YOU,,I dont feel so all alone. REMEMBER follow the money.
Put the OSHA regulation, with the illegal HIV waivers,producers illegally accessing results and the illegal waivers that producers have talent sign regarding health and safety on their sets,,,and the civil suits practicly file themselves.
AH
AHF and Pink Cross are alot smarter than they are getting credit for. You guys keep babbling about how they cant do shit to you, but this is just the beginning. You dont think they have more lawsuits just waiting for the right time. They could have shot their whole wad a long time ago, but they are smarter than that. THey have paced these things out perfectly.
ANd what happens when AHF gets hold of the last patient zero, and agrees to pay for her lifetime medical bills? LO EFFING L 0r do they already have her?????
THANK YOU ORIGEN01
OOps,
I forgot to throw in the agents sending workers to jobs that are inherehntyldangerouw with no protetcion and no workers comp insurance. Itis the agents duty to make sure that the companies they send people to work for are in compliance with health, safety, and are properly insured.
Like I sadi, these lawsuits will practicaly file themselves.
And regarding the latest patient zero and the AHF,,,,what do you think this lady(she aint no youngster) will say in order to get a lifetime of free treatment?
I wonder if AHF will offer Seth G. anything to file a lawsuit regarding shi being exposed to HIV on a porn set,i.e. workplace. Thankfully, he didnt get infected, and we are all happy about that….but he was EXPOSED in the workplace….Seth, theres a big payday waiting for you if you want it. Probably more money than you would ever make doing what you do in this inustry….and just think,,,you can stick ti to the producers the same way they’fe been sticking ti to you for years.
This is too easy
Origen says:
‘If there is a clear regulatory regime in regards to Adult (and despite what Joe says, there is not), production companies could be significantly more vulnerable to SUCCESSFUL civil action as a result of clear negligence.’
Perhaps this quote will help you to understand the point that I’m going to make:
‘Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.’
– Winston Churchill
You seem to be a good, intelligent person, but you’re young and perhaps don’t have enough experience and information about the business of pornography, also referred to as the adult industry. Pornographers who went to the meeting are perhaps in your category, to one extent or another. I, on the other hand, have spent a lifetime in this business, and the reason I don’t care about this and other meetings to come and whatever they decide in these meetings, is because I’ve been through and seen so much; and I can tell you with confidence whatever happens in 2010 cannot be worse than what was going on in 1980, and if that did not stop pornography, then nothing else will.
When you’re talking about pornography, it’s a matter of perception: What do you percieve as pornography? Are you talking about the overall business of making sexually explicit movies, or are you talking about a handful of companies (i.e. Adam & Eve, Vivid, Wicked, etc.) who produce and sell softcore, couple friendly porn movies and novelties? They’re two entirely different things: If you’re talking about the overall business of making sexually explicit movies, that can never, ever be stopped, no matter what. But if you’re talking about giving hard times to a handful of household friendly porn companies under the pretence of enforcing some type of rules, that may or may not happen. In any event, what happens to for instance Vivid has no impact on the business of somebody like me, an independent producer. Because I do my business on my own terms, I don’t have as much overhead expenses as Vivid, I work in a smaller scale and with the people whom I knew and trusted for years, not with the likes of Desi & Eli Foxx; and believe me, there are not too many parasites like Desi & Eli Foxx in this business. You can call the performers prostitues, whores, whatever, but the majority of them are good hearted people who just want to make a living and are not after filing bogus law suits and stabbing others in the back and burning the bridges behind themselves. And this is what CAL OSHA, AHF and their co-conspirators don’t understand: They assume the entire business of pornography revolves around a handful of companies, and they also assume that all performers are trecherous scumbags like Desi & Eli Foxx. So they piss their lives away, planning to turn *the adult industry* on its head. That didn’t happen 30 years ago, and that won’t happen today. It simply cannot happen, and they would have knew it if they knew what’s the nature of the business they’re dealing with, but they have no idea. Hopefully this answers your concerns.
Joe, the stated opinions of ONE or a few officials do not dictate a CLEAR regulatory regime. That’s the reason why AHF submitted their petition to Cal-OSHA. Ambiguities still exist within the Code vis a vis Adult and there are still statutory and even constitutional issues to sort out.
Thanks for the reply Colonel. You’re right, I’m young and dumb. I hope you’re right about the future…
…I mean, I want performers to be safer (mentally & physically) than they are now but I don’t want protections that force Hardcore production overseas.
Colonel,
We’ll see about that. There’s just one little difference you failed to mention. There’s a few dozen former porn actresses who are willing to testify in a court of law.
THAT didn’t happen in 1980.
Origen,
Deborah Gold, the OSHA official I quoted was not expressing “her” opinion. She was expressing the official position of Cal_Oshad on this matter.
AHF petition, if anyonw here actaully took the time to read it, has provisions in it that specifically state that things like dental dams and goggles are NOT necessary in adult films. Funny how the likes of AVN keep using dental dams and goggle as examples of overregulation, when AHF has specifically stated they are not pursuing that. It is wtirtten right there in their petition.
OSHA’s mandate is NOT to interpet constitutional issues. They have issued citations before,based on the current standards, and every single citation they have issued has been upheld,,every single one. TTBOY tried a “constitutional” appeal in 2005…he lost, actually he gave it up on the advice of his own attorney.
As far a s going overseas,,,what country do you think is going to allow American porn companies to walk in and set up shop,lock, stock and barrell…..And hwere do they get the “American” girls when they go overseas,,,,,Is Hustler going to start releasing porn with Brazilian or Euroepan models,,NO, hustlers market is the american girl.
And Florida,,ask Ray Gun…He was arrested for pimping, pnadering, and PRODUCING(not distributing)obscenity. The pipmping and pandering charges were dropped when he copped the plea. He is in jail.
The AHF petition is part of a mutli pronged approach to achieve their agenda. Even if Cal_osha decides NOT to ammend section 5193, that would mean the current standards still stand…..Any ‘new’ regulations still have to be at least equal to the federal standard,,,As was stated at the hearing,unless the indusrty can sow that what they are doing to protect workers is ‘equal’ to the current standard of mandatory condoms(and yes, the current standards do require condoms,thats not just an opinion), then the current standards will remain in place. And testing aint going to cut it BECAUSE OSHA sdoes not have the regualtory authority to mandate pre employmnet testing. THis is why the industy’s stesting program is “Voluntary”..Not one single porn company has any ‘written’ policy about testing, becuase if is illegal for the m to ‘require’ pre emplpyment testing. Mandatory testing would require and act of LEGISLATION, and that isnt OSHA’s gig.
Don’t get me wrong, Origen, I said you’re young and perhaps don’t have enough experience and information about the business of pornography. I didn’t say you’re dumb. I understand your concern about the performer’s well being, so let me explain this to you: As for the performer’s physical health, a porn performer is more healthy and more secure than the average call girls, strippers and swingers, mainly due to the existing testing procedures in the adult industry that are being conducted on a regular basis, and enable performers to detect, prevent and treat health risks. If anything, low rate of HIV contradiction among porn performers is a clear indication of that fact, a fact that any unbiased, unprejudiced, rational person will concur with.
As for performer’s emotional and mental health, there are girls who are damaged goods when they get into porn. They carry an excessive baggage of parental abuse, failed relationships, alcohol and drug addiction and other traumas, issues traced back to their childhood, none of which had been caused by porn. You can’t blame porn for the emotional and mental pain that an abusive, alcoholic, trailer trash step father had inflicted upon his step daughter. It’s not porn, it’s the society that inflicts all kinds of pain and trauma on people and damages them. Some damaged people join the police force, some join the military and some get into porn. If something needs to be changed, it’s the foundations of society. In other words, you have to know where to lay the blame, if you truly have good intentions.
However, for a scum like Shelly Lubben it doesn’t matter, although as an abused, alcoholic, crystal meth junkie and street walking prostitute turned Joan of Arc she clearly knows the truth. She knows it’s not porn’s fault that she had to drink and do crystal meth before performing in her shitty scenes, because she was an alcoholic and drug junkie before she got into porn; many performers that I know never do that. She also knows it’s not porn’s fault that she was whoring herself and was bringing her private clients to her ghetto house at the presence of her pimp of a husband and children to pay for her alcohol and drug habits, because she was a street walking prostitute before she got into porn; many performers that I know don’t do that. Shelly Lubben is a failed human being, an empty shell, a piece of shit who refuses to accept the fact that her life was ruined by so many elements far outside porn’s range. But she doesn’t accept that fact, because she can’t afford to. If she accepts that fact, then she has to give up her potato couch job as an anti-porn crusader, and has to get off her lazy ass and find a job and actually work to earn her bread; and for parasite scum like Shelly Lubben that’s the hardest thing.
In fact Shelly, the *few dozen performers* that you hope to build something upon their testimonies have as much credibility as retards who have been trained for grade school historical pageants. In other words, their credibility is shit, no matter how hard you had trained them and no matter how much crocodile tears they shed. At the very best, they’ll help you to solicit more pathetic donations and give Vivid and AIM some hard time; and let’s face it, that’s as far as you’ll ever go with this, but why taking my words? Like you said, we’ll see about that.
Colonel, alot of what you say is true. Alot pf perfromers are screwed up poeple long before they enter porn..
But can you think of any other industry that reaches out to these fucked up people, opens their doors to them, and thrives off of them, while a the same time encouraging the same behavior that fucked them up in the first place? Except amybe the music industry,,,but musicians actually have talent.If they didnt have the talent as musicians, they wuoldnt thrive. Porn performers have no such ‘talent’
Lets not try to paint the adult industry as a wholesome group of people just proviing jobs to people who need work.
This industry thrives on these fucked up people and couldnt exist without them.
If someone is a fucked up druggie, with mental problems shows up on a set, what usually happens? Does this person get sent home. NO. THey are welcomed with open arms.
Is a fucked up druggie with mental problems really giving informed consent?
What amount of credibility do you give to someone who hires fucked up, crystal meth junky, street walking whores to be in their porn movies? WHen a producer CHOOSES to hire this person, how muchcredibility does he have?
Joe Know says:
‘Can you think of any other industry that reaches out to these fucked up people, opens their doors to them, and thrives off of them, while at the same time encouraging the same behavior that fucked them up in the first place?’
Yes, I can think of an industry far, much worse than the adult, it’s called the military. Physical, emotional and mental damages that the military inflicts upon its people are in no way comparable to any other industry. Period.
Look man, I’m only a business man. I got into this line of work at a young age, and stayed in because I liked the money and the freedom of it. I don’t tend to defend and/or justify porn, as you can see from my articles and comments, there are many things about porn that I disagree with and don’t like. However, I don’t blame porn and don’t hold it responsible for the pain and traumas of the fuck-ups and rejects who get into this business to make easy money and become the next Jenna Jameson or Jenna Haze or Nina Hartley, and once they start making easy money, instead of planning responsibly and perusing their initial goal, get lost in the moment and fuck themselves up deeper and further on booze and drugs and bullshit. It’s them, not porn. To each his own. A porn producer is just that, a producer. He’s not the government or the social reformist. He’s making and selling movies, and as long as a girl shows up on time, has a valid health test, behaves and takes directions well, they will work together. The producer is not responsible for that girl’s past traumas or how will she plan for her future. That’s up to the girl herself.
Is porn responsible for Jenna Haze’s success? No, the credit goes to her for making the right moves and taking good care of herself and managing her finance. Is porn responsible for Shelly Lubben’s complete, utter failure as a human being? No, the blame lays on her, her family and her childhood. So let’s be fair.
On another note, for the reasons I mentioned before, I don’t see these meetings going anywhere and having any potential results; and that’s why I don’t even care to attend them. The bottom line is that I’m neither left nor right; I only speak my mind and call a spade a spade. If you agree with what I say, bless your heart. If you don’t, bless your heart. I have nothing personal against you.
Colonel,
If Shelley is ‘scum’ what word you you use to describe the number of producers who hire mentally fucked up, crtystal meth additc, street walking hookers?
And in your above post you talk about porn workers being safer than call girls, swingers, and strippers. I find this VERY FUNNY, seeing how so many porn stars are ALSO call girls, strippers and swingers, so wouldnt that make them MORE likely to be a health threat to the partners that they have unprotected sex with? And with all these crystalmeth junky, street walking whores(as YOU describe them) in the porn industry, woulndt that make it a pretty dangerous place to dip your wick?
Is a twenty nine day old test, on someone who has had, lets say 15 partners, who have had 15 partners each, all performing unprotected sex, including with junkies and streetwalking whores something you would call a “VALID HEALTH TEST?”
Please dont tell me you are going to try to convice us that this is ‘valid’ health protection. C’mon, Colonel, be honest about this!!!!
And my above scenario takes place EVERYDAY in porn valley,,,,you know that as well as anyone Colonel, dont you?
Didnt darren James have a “VALID HEALTH TEST” back in 2004?
Joe Know says:
‘If Shelley is ’scum’ what word you use to describe the number of producers who hire mentally fucked up, crystal meth addict, street walking hookers?’
Read my above comment, you’ll get your answer. I call those producers business men. On the other hand, there are porn performers who also work as strippers and see private clients, but unlike full time call girls, strippers, swingers and street walking hookers, those performers are being tested on a regular basis. So to answer your other question:’ Wouldn’t that make it (porn) a pretty dangerous place to dip your dick?’ no, the testing procedure works and makes porn a safer place to gladly dip my dick in compare to picking up somebody in a swingers club or from the corner of the street.
In regards to the testing, one thing I’d like to see change is the testing period. I’d like to see it change to 14 days instead of 30 days. Personally, I never hire anybody whose test is 29 days old, and I know many other producers don’t do that, either.
I have to say I agree on something The Colonel is hinting at. Shelly hires the same girls to perform.
Then why dont you just simply require that anyone on your set have a test no older than 14 days? What is stopping you from doing that?
Where do you draw the line on tests Colones,,,14 days 15 days?
How do you know that the person you hire today, who has a five day old test, didnt work with someone yesterday who had a 29 day old test, therefore exposing EVERYONE on YOUR set to everything that they have come in contact with for the last 29 days?
And yes, you may well know producers who have a higher standard,,,,but becuase of all of theose that dont apply those standards it ruins it for those who do.
Everybody in the porn “pool of performers” is at the risk level of the riskiest person in the pool. Or I should say, all the males are at the same risk, and all the females are at the same risk. And the females risk level is higher.
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At what oint Colonel, does the test that a performer have become ‘INVALID”
How many unprotected partners does one have to have before that ‘test’ is no longer accurate?
Is a five day old test still VALID if that person has had 5 unprotected partners, and those five have had 5 unprotected partners each?
If all of these performers are so clean becuase of the testing, WHy has AIM reported THOUSANDS of postitive tests, on just the limited number of tds’ they test for….And remember they dont even test for oral or anal infections.
How ridiculous do you think it is Colonel that they dont even test for oral or anal gonn/chlam? Do you require your perfromers to be tested for oran ald anal stds” WHy not?
And as the Health Dept doctor stated at the hearing,,,,the ‘repeat’ postitve tests are NOT included in their stats, As AIM has falsely claimed for years!!!!
I’m just gonna merge threads here Joe. Pornography is not EXPLICITLY illegal in the state of Florida. You show me the statute that says it is and I’ll start saying Florida producers are criminals.
And the Mann act? Really? Like I said, prosecutions against porners ARE NOT universal in Florida so what makes you think the federal government wants to stick its head into this matter? You say you support porners’ right to do that they do under the 1st Amendment but you talk as if it should be the government’s duty to take the Industry down. Sorry dude, the US is NOT Australia or Great Britain there is no real national crusade to “end” American porn because sexual expression (even for profit) is free speech!
You act as if you defending helpless performers but you really are doing this for yourself to satisfy some religious or ideological agenda–and that’s ok, I mean 1st Ammendment but just be up front about it.
Why shouldn’t someone be able to perform a golden shower for video production? Personally, I think its gross, but if the consenting partners are clean what should any code or statute get in their way? Golden showers are not medically dangerous. Likewise, if the current health code and its language regarding bodily fluids are to followed by the adult producers then almost ALL porn would be in violation. The current language in the code and even the language in the AHF’s petition makes direct contact oral sex and cumshots acts of neglience. If the code is applied to the Adult industry it is not mainly a burden on producers but its an intrusion into the private affairs of consenting individuals.
Remember, porn is NOT prostituion and sex that occurs on set is between consenting parties. Producers do not pay performers to PROVIDE their sexual services but pay to RECORD & DISTRIBUTE their sexual activities. Now you must be thinking–“come on, that’s not how the industry operates! Producers virtually mandate specific sexual acts!”–and I agree that producers should respect performer preferences but the fact the producers are only supposed to record and assist is the only form of logic that makes porn production legal.
Add my spiel to the fact that Cal-Osha’s policy of enforcement towards Adult has been spotty and arbitrary and that does NOT make the current regulatory regime clear.
Oh, and BTW, its entirely possible for porn companies to move overseas and take girls with them. Any kind of exodus would drastically lower production levels but, like you said, demand will always be for American girls. Thus, profit margins for producers who feature American girls would increase and they would be able to afford transportation costs.
And countries like Spain, Portgual, Hungary, and Czech Republic are more than happy to allow companies to set up shop in their territory. Even Brazil (despite anti-pornography movements there). What makes you think that they don’t allow foreign porn producers?
“Porn companies to move overseas and take girls with them” ANd how many girls are they going to take? You are joking of course. International laws regarding the traffickingof sex workers are very explicit.
California is the only state covered by the Fremman decision. California is the only state that has a specific ruling that makes porn NOT prostitution.
Foriegn countries regulate the pron industy just like they do here,,,,very little =regulation. And american workers go to these foregn countries on very intermitandly. I dont think these companies, and the porn industries in these countries will stand for the amercian boys walking in lock stock and barrel.
The prosecution of Ray Gun….. HE was indeed charged with promoting prostitution, but as part of the plea deal those charges were dropped. He took the plea becuase he knew he would be found guilty. And the law in Norther Florda is the same as in southern Florida. IT is abvious that Florida does not recognize porn as anything other than prostitiution, that is why he was charged with promoting prostitution!!!
And al the things you said about porn not being prostition, and paying fora performace is true,,,,BUT ONLY IN CALIFORNIA. Only california is covered by the Freeman decision.
And I think you have a very fundamentaly flawed view of OSHA regulations. Many jobs are inherenly dangerous, and many jobs often result in injuries to workers. BUt it is what the employer does AFTER the injury that determines if they are fined or otherwise sancioned for that injury. If they follow the law as to what they are supposed to do AFTER the injury, no fines are issued. Just like blood borne pahtogen exposures in hospitals…..after the exposure, testing and treatment is paid for by the eimployer, and if these rules are followed no citations are issued. The OSHA standards themselves recognize that a exposures do accur, even in the safest workplace. Its what you do AFTERWARDS that determines if any legal action can be taken.
Do you really think that all these girls in the U.S. porn industry are goig to Brazil, or Paugue? Most of them cant afford a plane ticket to Vegas. And most of the low buget Leroy’s shooting in the Valley couldnt afford it either.
In my opinion, the notion of AMerican girls going oversees in large numbers, to make porn is laughable.
Porners like the Colonel arent going anywhere. This bluff has been called many times in the past. IF THEY WERE GOING ANYWHERE THEY WOULD BE GONE BY NOW.
Joe Know says:
‘How do you know that the person you hire today, who has a five day old test, didn’t work with someone yesterday who had a 29 day old test, therefore exposing EVERYONE on YOUR set to everything that they have come in contact with for the last 29 days?’
I don’t know that. I have my own standards that I comply with, and at the end of the day I hope my standards work like they have worked for the past 16 years that I’ve been producing content. But let me ask you a hypothetical question: Let’s assume using condom in porn becomes mandatory. Let’s go on a limb and also assume everybody will comply with the condom enforcement completely. What if a male performer is exposed to whatever disease during a one night stand with somebody he picked up in a club, then his condom breaks during the scene and he infects his partner? How condom will prevent something like that from happening? If condom cannot prevent threats like that, then what’s the next step, shutting down porn completely? See, the bottom line is that you can never be %100 safe. Ever.
The current testing procedures in the adult industry are not perfect, but then again no other safety procedure in any other industry is perfect. To see an example of failure of safety procedures, look at the oil disaster at the gulf of Mexico, or remember how during the peak of Iraq war Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld told soldiers to stop complaining about the lack of the equipment and go to war with whatever equipment the U.S military affords to provide for them. The fact is that we live in an imperfect, unbalanced, dangerous world, and either we must come to terms with that fact and take our chances, or we better crawl into isolated holes and avoid any and all human contacts.
And you’re right, man, I’m not going anywhere. I like it here, and I’m good at what I do.
Trafficking of sex workers? Ok, now you are just hysterically exaggerating. You went to church today and are convinced its your duty to fight the evils of sexual immorality that swishes through the land like satan’s wildfire? I’m sorry but porners are not evil people nor is sex an evil thing.
1st off, the fundamental nature of international relations is anarchic. The international institutions and treaties may have all sorts of laws on the books but its ultimately up to nation-states to enforce them.
2nd, porn is a CONSENSUAL ACT and the production of porn is legal in several countries. As those two conditions exist and proper immigration procedures are followed, how is the travel of porn performers trafficking?
And agens/producers can afford to have performers travel internationally. The majority of European performers travel great distances all the time. That being said, any kind of exodus would reduce the talent pool in proportion with a drop in production.
“And I think you have a very fundamentaly flawed view of OSHA regulations. Many jobs are inherenly dangerous, and many jobs often result in injuries to workers. BUt it is what the employer does AFTER the injury that determines if they are fined or otherwise sancioned for that injury. If they follow the law as to what they are supposed to do AFTER the injury, no fines are issued. Just like blood borne pahtogen exposures in hospitals…..after the exposure, testing and treatment is paid for by the eimployer, and if these rules are followed no citations are issued. The OSHA standards themselves recognize that a exposures do accur, even in the safest workplace. Its what you do AFTERWARDS that determines if any legal action can be taken.”
So is the upcoming production of Cum Swallow #75 in legal jeopardy? If Cal-Osha had foreknowledge of such a production they wouldn’t take steps to shut the production company down?
Do you really think that porners, who dont follow the rules here, are going to follow proper immigration procidures to go oversees. Trafficking sex workers,,,,What do you call, AS YOU SAID, taking girls with them oversees?
Really, American porn agents and talent can afford international travel, on a regular basis, to get work? Just out of curiosity, what planet do you live on?
AND ENOUGH OF THE MADE UP LITTLE STORIES…’you went to church and are convinced its your dutry…….Is that the best you can come up with?
Maybe I shoud give it a try.
Origen, it is OBVIOUS that your nothing but a porn industry apologist becuase your mother was a one time performer, and your daddy was one of her tricks. Your obssesive defense of these people is your own defense mechanism that you use to deal withthe FACT that your mom turned tricks in fromt of the camera while she was pregnangt with you.
See I can make up stories JUST LIKE YOU
oh, and about Roy Gun….You think he would have copped a plea if he were in Miami-Dade? You think a jury would have convicted him of pimping and pandering? You think the District Attorney’s office would have charged him with those offenses? If you said to all those questions..well, I’ll believe it when I see it. 😉
ok, joe didn’t mean to set off a nerve. No more stories. And my mom was raped in her youth and is a church-going lady. Nice going dude.
The HEALTH Department may have grounds to shut that busines down, but OSHA would not.
Just like the Health department can shut down restaurants that pose a health hazard, or an auto body shop that spews dangerous fumes
But OSHA could cite the porn company, and then the porn company could answer that citaion with their records of what they did after the exposures.
You need to learn the difference betwen what the health department and OSHA can do. You are mixing your apples with your oranges. ANd like most porners, and porn aplogists,,,Ignorance of the law is no excuse.
European performers travel internationally on a regular basis. Ask any major producer or European performer. If Euro girls can do it, why can’t American girls?
…and the term trafficking implies smuggling for EXPLOITATIVE purposes. Porn is not inherently exploitative. For one thing, performers are paid well and secondly they have autonomy on set and engage in CONSENSUAL sex.
If OSHA were to find a “SAFETY” hazard(electrical or something like that) they might be able to close that business until that “SAFETY hazard is corrected. But they cant close a business on a percieved blod borne pathogen violation UNLESS other people besides EMPLOYEES are at risk.
“You need to learn the difference betwen what the health department and OSHA can do. You are mixing your apples with your oranges. ANd like most porners, and porn aplogists,,,Ignorance of the law is no excuse.”
Dully noted.
“You need to learn the difference betwen what the health department and OSHA can do. You are mixing your apples with your oranges. ANd like most porners, and porn aplogists,,,Ignorance of the law is no excuse.”
Dully noted.
wow umm you 2 do know that this isnt something that is just in the adult industry dont you? 2 years ago i go a bad rash on my forhead and the doc thought i had shingles. after lots of meds (reaalyy embarresed i had to get a prescrip filled for herpes) the doc says “oh my bad its just a viral infection” well long story short because of the stink i created over unsafe working conditions and the such when it was determined that i had no lasting disease i was let go.
U.S. laws regarding travel and issuing of passports are very strict. For any person in the united states citizen to arrange for a sexual liason of any Unites States citizen to take place in a forieng country is ILLEGal
Regarding my above post,,,,OSHA can not shut down a business BEFORE a violation takes place(if that makes it easier for you to understand) The Health Department can.
And Origen,
What makes you think porners are going to follow the rules in other countries?
“And Origen,
What makes you think porners are going to follow the rules in other countries?”
Nothing. This whole discussion on relocation is hypothetical anyway.
“For any person in the united states citizen to arrange for a sexual liason of any Unites States citizen to take place in a forieng country is ILLEGal”
hm? Can you please clarify?
http://www.america.gov/st/washfile-english/2005/January/20050106133608cjsamoht4.548281e-02.html
There ya go Origen
I’m very familiar with the TVPA because human trafficking for purposes of sexual exploitation is very close to my heart. It is abhorrent and if you think I condone that shit you are dead wrong.
But the fact remains that the statue only prohibits TRAFFICKING and sex with TRAFFICKED persons. Adult performers are NOT trafficked persons! Performers traveling of their own free will to engage in consensual sex are not explicitly criminalized by the statute. That being said, you are correct. US producers and talent agencies cannot profit from performer sex acts nor can they explicitly pay for travel. They would have to permanently set up shop abroad.
All this being said, the statue was put in place mainly to combat instances of involuntary servitude rape and abuse. To think that the federal government is waiting to nail adult companies and performers for their activities abroad is grossly misleading.
It is not their activiteis ‘abroad’ that the feds are looking at…it is their activities right here that hteyre looking at.
Andof course i do not beleive that you support such activity, and I dont think I ever said that.
Werent both Lararoxx and Jessica Dee both working in this country illegally when they got HIV? I know for a fact that Lara roxx did not have a work visa. I wonder what the statute of limitaions is on shit like this?
Oh, and I’m not a “porn apologist”, joe. I agree that things have to change but at the same time I DO like watching two people having explicit sex on video.
Yeah. I like porn. Does that make me an evil person, joe? Shelley?
It’s been summed up quite simply as to why mandatory condom enforcement would not be any sort of an ending for these whiners. Condoms don’t protect against all diseases in the porn industry workplace. So what is the point, and why would anyone think because fo that fact, that mandatory condom use would be the end of the story?
President,
I agree with your above post. ANd here’s whats next,
The NEXT step is to enforce the OTHER section of OSHA regulation 5193,,and that is to make EMPLOYERS pay for post exposure testing and treatment. Also ehp testing and vaccination. This testing procedure is part of the same mandatory condom regulation.
President, did you know that the OSHA regulatio 5193 also makes it mandatory for employers to provide testing and treatment at NO COST to the empolyee?
Ah, my good Colonel, it’s just so refreshing to know that there are still renegades in this business, and in this world.
I join you wholeheartedly in saying:
“Fuck the system!”
“Fuck the government!”
“Fuck the military (but love and honor the grunts)!”
“Fuck the church!”
and… “Fuck anybody who thinks they can control others!”
Metal Rules!
*Love to all my friends here on LIB*
—-The NEXT step is to enforce the OTHER section of OSHA regulation 5193,,and that is to make EMPLOYERS pay for post exposure testing and treatment.
This is completely circular and that’s why it’s pointless. As I said, condoms don’t protect against all infections in the porn workplace so what is the point of using them in the first place if employers still have to pay for post exposure and treatment the condoms aren’t protecting against?
President logic,
First of all it is obvious by your response that you were NOT even aware of the other significant portions of regulation 5193.
And I guess no one should use seatbelst either becuase they do not give 100% protection.
Your uninformed statement above, about paying for tests that condoms dont protedct agaisnt is laughable. Again, it is OBVIOUS that you have never read the statute, or else you would not make such an ignorant statement.Unfortunately for the porn industry, alot of the producers think just like President here,,,and that is their first and biggest mistake.
President, do yourself a favor and read the staute,,,,then MAYBE you can come up with some more laughable excuses for the porn industry.
Seriously, fuck OSHA.
I spent over two decades in the construction trades, including work on the Alaska Pipeline in the ’70s. When OSHA lackeys showed up on-site, with their clipboards and clean white hard hats, we all used to laugh out loud. Get real and see this for what it is – an extremely weak attempt to to scare a weak industry.
Grow some balls, and tell the gov’t to fuck themselves. Shut up and go make some porn, or stay home and watch TV.
Right on, Third Axis, it’s great to have you back on LIB board.
Fuck the system and up with the establishment.
More power to you, brother.
Thanks for the non-answer to my direct question, joe. Keep the circle going, on and on.
——And I guess no one should use seatbelst either becuase they do not give 100% protection.
That’s an incorrect analogy because you are referring to consumers and not employees. I thought this was about OSHA? Why am I bothering…..
—–When OSHA lackeys showed up on-site, with their clipboards and clean white hard hats, we all used to laugh out loud.
We can all see why.
President,
If you had one clue what is actually in the statute then you would know which tests are required to test for after exposure,,,but YOU dont have a clue do you, or els you wouldnt have made another foolish statement?
ANd laughing at the OSHA lackeys,,,,EVERY SINGLE TIME as OSHA inspcetor has shown up on a porn set in the last three years they have issued at least $16,500.oo in fines….EVERY SINGLE TIME (16) Every single citation was upheld, and every single company paid the fines. EVERY SINGLE ONE.
The current 16 citations from the AHF have not all been completed. Seven of the companies have paid the fines, and nine are still pending.
http://www.thecrcenter.com/archives/2009/12/28/hepatitis-b-vaccination-and-post-exposure-follow-up-procedures/ A little education for you President,,,and remember,,,,just becuase one sectionof the regulation may not be applicalble to a particular industry, doesnt mean that NONE of it is applicalble. Is that to complicated for you. LOL
condoms don’t protect against all infections in the porn workplace so what is the point of using them in the first place if employers still have to pay for post exposure and treatment the condoms aren’t protecting against?
—–EVERY SINGLE TIME as OSHA inspcetor has shown up on a porn set in the last three years they have issued at least $16,500.oo in fines….EVERY SINGLE TIME (16) Every single citation was upheld, and every single company paid the fines. EVERY SINGLE ONE.
And we can all see how much that mattered in the scheme of things.
—-When OSHA lackeys showed up on-site, with their clipboards and clean white hard hats, we all used to laugh out loud.
I just say…keep the sales and big wigs of porn companies here in the Valley and move production to Miami and shoot there and in the bahamas, and south america with these beautiful Brazillian babes like the ones I fucked in Beverely hills the other night 2 of them visting LA…and give all the content shoots to CezarCapone and Josh Stone and others to shoot for the LA Producers and Hustler, and others….Ok u guys pizza and beer time..Stay up and stay HARD!! LOL