In the main, the sex industry attracts women who are troubled and disenfranchised: emotionally, financially, educationally, etc. The number of true porn exhibitionists–women, in other words, who would do this sort of thing for the sort of pay they would receive at the other jobs they are qualified to do (usually Starbucks cashier work)–are few (and of those, probably most have psych problems, traumatic pasts, etc.). I think we all can accept this much.
Porn work doesn’t necessarily create the problems these women have, but it very often exacerbates them, and in almost no cases does it help to rectify them. You might think of it as a petri dish for growing desperation. You need the seeds, but the porn industry just provides a fertile environment that stimulates their growth.
We all should be sad that Hailey Paige died. But we should also accept that porn probably multiplied this girl’s problems, as it does for most of these women.
In short, we as porn consumers are very often feeding on womens’ troubles, and I think Warp Speed just brought that out explicitly and took it to its logical conclusion. Very few of these girls who make it out of porn to a relatively normal existence (and don’t end up doing MILF-porn work till theyre gray) look back on it as a terrific part of their lives. We are jerking to women who are struggling (even if they’re making great money–take one look at multimillioniare Jenna Jameson and tell me she isn’t struggling with body image issues, aging, and so forth).
So when we express sadness that Haley died, let us also express some grief about who we are–not just that we did nothing to help her fly straight, but that we did, in all likelihood, actually contribute (as porn consumers and [for some of us] producers) to this woman’s misery.
So the next time you post a banana man jerk when you hear a girl did porn just to make rent, or to feed a habit, think about Haley and her demise and what the fuck it is your saying…
To his credit, Warp (perhaps unwittingly) showed us the naked lunch–what it is that’s on the end of everyone’s forks.
Pinupmutant writes:
Really? None of you are responsible?
Are habitual cocaine users, by driving the demand for coca leaf production, contributing to cartel violence in Columbia and Bolivia and environmental damage as virgin forests are clear cut to make way for coca? Uh-huh.
Are consumers who want cheap sneakers and plastic shit from Walmart supporting child labor in the process? You betcha.
If you drink Napa or Sonoma wine, did a Mexican die in the desert after paying a grand to a coyote for passage so he could work in vineyard for shit pay? Yup.
Do you, porn consumers of XPT, by consuming porn which continues to reach for new lows of violence, degradation, and gross-out cheap stunts, contribute to a cycle of traumatization of already fucked-up young people? Yes, you do.
Fuck Jesus and Shelley Lubben. This is a website that celebrates misanthropy in all its forms. If you’re all the badasses that you make yourselves out to be daily basis, then put your money where your mouth is, and simply say:
"Yes, I help porn whores hit rock bottom with every purchase I make, and you know what? I don’t care."
We are all users in one way or another. There’s no point in denying it, is there?
Voltaire Jones emails: "Maybe when you watch Calista Flockhart you are just making her eating disorder worse by watching her on TV and adding to her popularity and thus her anxiety. Maybe when you go to the local restaurant and buy a meal, you are keeping the cook coming to a job that is holding him back from his true love of singing country music. You bastards! If you would just stop your evil consuming all those sad people could have happy lives!"
Great posts. Mike Quasar made a similar comment in ADT. Of course, the market sold us the products we want, so the consumer is the ultimate responsable for the products he buys. The industry does not care for the welfare of the talents because the consumer do not cares, period. But what is the solution, socially responsably porn?
You should consider the source before using this person’s words for your own purposes. Start by looking at at his avatars.
I think part of the problem is who girls associate themselves with. Many girls keep inertaction with men who treat them like crap and abuse them, while they turn down and reject advances from men who are really nice people. They also keep the relationship with the abusive man rather then take the initiative to meet someone new. Porn girls are typical with this. Women have to realize that a boring guy who treats them great is 100 times more important than an arrogant guy who may have more money or seems more interesting but treats people like crap. When girls don’t realize this difference it leads to their demise. This is very noticeable with young girls and high school girls as I’ve seen many times young attractive girls being verbally abused and treated like sluts by their arrogant jerk boyfriends, yet they will turn down a simliar guy their age because he is shy and not a jerk at all. Many times I have seen a so called hot girl call a nice well mannered boy boring and want nothing to do with him because he doesn’t curse and keep up with the sexually degrading remarks. “Hot” girls pay more attention to a guy with a million tattoos & piercings rides motorcycles does drugs and has the I don’t give a fuck about anybody attitude with constant cocky & selfish remarks. Meanwhile those same “hot” girls will ignore and show no interest even to the point of making fun of a nice well spoken and dressed guy who is just looking for a friendship where he can treat people fairly and with respect. This is common with celebrities also. For example, Take the guy from Meet the Barker’s. The guy is completely fucking disgusting, he has no shape no muscle a million tatoos is decrepid most likely evil and just an overall fuckup yet a fairly attractive normal girl is infatuated with him and if he walked into a bar that guy most likely will get more attention from women, then a clean cut guy with a T-shirt and pair of jeans. Pam Anderson is another example. Sorry Pam, Tommy Lee & Kid Rock are not your guys. Tommy & Kid are both women and fags and you could tell that by they way they approached each other recently, neither one of them acted like a Man. Someone like Bruce Willis or Mark Wahlberg are Pam’s guys but you almost never see a bombshell with a good looking guy like that. Also how many times to you see a great looking strong guy with a decrepid fucked up chick with a billion tatoos who looks all drugged out. It almost never happens. This is why girls are having problems and enter the porn world. The descision is there for themselves and they are not making the correct one.
God posts here!
to Martin:How did you know it was me?
to pinupmutant:we are not all users. I personally do not support or engage in any of this porn, drug, music, movie garbage. And I try to show people in anyway possible that there are more than one solution to the difficulties everyone faces in life.
Sorry a typo! Was meant to be Good posts here – as in – some very well thought out and intelligent posts.
Just look at Britney Spears.. or Lindsey Lohan…or tens of millions of other people roaming this earth at the moment with no sense of self. Same outcome no matter whether it’s porn, music, acting or working forminimum wage at Walmart.
If you don’t make the effort to police your own lifestyle to make sure it’s the one that best jives with who you really are then you will get f*cked by somebody eventually. If you are ugly and poor then you will probably just get left to your own poisons and left to rot in a gutter somewhere. If you are young and pretty then it’s not going to take long before someone wants a piece of you. Take away the morality/religous shame of the exploited porn star and you’ve got the same old shit sandwich life delas to everybody to lazy to exert self-control.
There is no conspiracy of happiness.
I don’t think porn in general is specifically the problem. Rather it is the stereotypical stigma attached to it that hangers-on, fans and groupies think gives them the right to prejudge the talent they jerk off to and mistreat them like lowlife trash.
If you wallow in negativity, then that is what you will attract. In the sex trade, porn haves are hated by fan havenots. And because of the web, anyone with a computer and a dick thinks they are part of the porn universe. The danger of this narrows the gap between hardcore head cases and easy porn acccess.
Unless one looks at as the human sex act as something bad, X as a letter of the entertainment alphabet is not to blame. Showbiz instituions are not inherenty evil. The people who run afoul of them and commit criminal acts are.
Forrest…Your Right! Porn is hardly the problem. Some people endure a rough patch and come out stronger. Others mire in the sewer of society and pay the ultimate price. The loss of this young lady is very tragic.
JoeRilly..Right again ! You take a dope addict jerk, no job, no teeth, on a worn out Harley and he’s in play. Poor kid, with a college education, clean, square, pulling $100k..he can’t find a date. Really it’s funny as good men know the score.
thanks BigLee I appreciate the comment. Forrest I agree that showbiz institutions are not inherently evil, however at the present modern day moment that is exactly what they have become. First I want to let it be known that a broadway play, opera or symphony is not what we are talking about. We are specifically talking about the mtv based music industry, hollywood movie industry and san fernando valley porn industry. The people who produce, direct, star and consume(pay for) in large quantities of these products are Far And Away the main problem with young people today in this country there is no fucking question about it. Go back 50 years and these 3 artforms were just getting started to reach the level they are at, people used to be suppressed to show their feelings about movies, music & porn. After technological advances contributed to the growth of these industries everbody and their fucking mother became a star. With music so many songs have been made by 2007, that it is ridiculous to think that anyone who continues to compose deserves to gain profit using these techological devices. Anyone who continues to do so is a Fucking Loser. With movies there are so many movies out there, so many ideas, roles special effects storylines and plots that anyone who continues to produce a hollywood movie is an asshole unless the movie is disney orientated with family values. With porn there have been so many images of people fucking that anyone who continues to do so and expect profit is a fucking moron. If you seek profit from these 3 industries YOU Are specifically the problem with young people in our country because profiting damages the relationship between the so called star and the so called fan, which causes inequality. Unless you give it out for free you’re a fucking piece of shit because given the quantity of dvd’s cd’s etc that have already been made you are tricking and deceiving the consumer into buying AND your product is NOT a necessecity or a rarity
For example last album I bought was Raekwon’s Cuban Linx in 1995. Last movie I paid for was 1998 one of the new Star Wars movies. And although I do get a porn $2.95 trial here and there I keep it under $50 for the year and I have Never bought a porn dvd or vhs in my life. Its not because I don’t have money its because I know these people are fucking garbage. Not only that I can out perform all these asshole stars in EVERY INDUSTRY. I have no desire to be on of them because of the phony bullshit that goes along with it. All we have to do is kick these fags out and take back our country. End of Story. Defend the Glory.
JOE RILLY RUNS THIS SHIT, YA HEAR!!!!!!
Pinupmutant makes a good point (seriously, I’m not being sarcastic this time), however I’m not sure it’s quite so clear cut.
In the case of the cocaine user’s responsibility for bloodshed in Columbia (or closer to home), or buying sneakers made by poor child laborers, I think the chain of responsibility is pretty clear. In both of those cases many of the victims are innocent and just happen to have been born in the “wrong” place.
But one can take this argument too far; say I buy OverHype brand bottled water from Big Corp, which uses tap water from Podunk, this then helps drive up the municipal water rates in Podunk making it more expensive to irrigate their vast fields of jute, cutting into the farmer’s profits and forcing the Podunk Hardware store to fire one employee.
By drinking OverHype water am I partially responsible for that employee’s job loss? I don’t know, maybe. But that sort of chain can – and will – lead to millions of consequences. It’s just part of a complex system.
But the main point here, are porn consumer’s responsible for tragic events in the lives of porn stars? I’m not sure it’s that clear cut. On the one hand the money spent by consumers does fuel the industry, which attracts women to it often with bad results. On the other hand the people in this industry have other choices, they may not be very good choices, but they do have choices. Certainly more practical, realistic choices than someone in Columbia who just happens to live in a village on a smuggling route.
So while I don’t totally dismiss the argument that porn consumers are partially responsible for bad things which happen to people in the industry, I don’t think that helps understand an individual case which depends on the people involves and their specific circumstances.
Also, I can’t help thinking a “blame the consumer” mentally here takes a lot of the responsibility off the adult industry itself.
Hello. For the past decade the porno status quo has been poisoned by crazed fans posing as journalists. By sour grapes sexual havenots who spread hate, fear and negativity. And in their neurotic layless insanity, they pose a serious threat to talent in or out of the biz.
These type of people who now inhabit the press ranks would have never been allowed in the past. They’d be weeded out to make the biz safer for insiders. With nothing but bad things to say about everyone and everything, they create a atmosphere of dread and evil and bad karma.
Because of the web, such autoerotic nutjobs are the foxes guarding the hardcore hen house. Haley is not dead because of her lay for pay job. She’s dead because the jerkoffs who used to be kept at arms length in old fashioned theaters in the good old days are now deadly predatory insiders.
In short, porn is being destroyed by its fan base. It’s that simple.
Bravo, Joerilly. Nice isn’t interesting to women, sad to say. At least the women who know they’re hot commodities. Little wonder one of the top-selling dating guys calls his stuff “Cocky and funny.”
I’m also reminded a bit of one of the 12 steps of Adult Children of Alcoholics: We became addicted to excitement. The money, booze, drugs, sex, rich boyfriend, etc.
Very interesting debate both here and in XPT but there is a element missing.
The links between chilhood sex abuse, postraumatic stress disorder and sex work.
Haley Paige showed clear symtoms of Postraumantic stress disorder. The depression, the drug addiction, the abusive codendent relationships. If a girl comes to the industry mentally ill she will not get better here for sure. And she did not get better.
The sex for fun is evil is a judeocristian position but there is also growing scientific evidence of the links between sex work and postraumantic stress disorder, based on secular evolutionary science. The Swedish restrictions on the sex industry are science and not religion based.
Hard to feel sorry for anyone who sells themselves. Its called personal accountability. For every one that does, there are several who could and do not.
You can’t easily explain away the pratfalls of a career in porn via moralists or the puritan theocracy of religious nutjobs who themselves help create the world’s problems.
I have known women to flock to blowbiz to escape their strict parentage. Religious holdholds can be among the most insane. Holier than thou people possess demons themselves away from X and often become their own hypocritical vice.
When an average 9-5 woman meets her ill fate with Mr. Wrong doom, do investigatiors blame her retail sales job? Day jobs do not kill. Night people do. Porn is full of them. And they are fan insiders who do not belong. So starlets beware.
Damaged people find ways to screw themselves up no matter what society does to prevent it from happening.
Porn is a biz by nature that endangers human lives as part of the profit equation. If you have rejected help from those in your personal life who truly want to help you then why would you expect assisitance from smut peddlers, pimps, and sociopaths?
There are millions of people suffering from PTS who willingly accept help and take responsobilties for their own lives.
Drew Parker wrote:
Damaged people find ways to screw themselves up no matter what society does to prevent it from happening.
X2
Darwin’s effect is there for a reason.
Darwin would also argee those who are reproductively active rather than repressed are fit for survival.
Porno sex gone wild is only helf of the reason why the western world is being outpopulated across the globe.
Some folks with high sex drives have more kids, some become jerkoffs and the worst wind up in porn. So be it.
Meanwhile, Juan and Mohammed are laughing at us.
Taking c*ck for money is not evolution’s idea of ‘reproductively active’. I would have to think that the avergae porn star’s evolutionary chart has quite a dim outlook.
Females primates who exchange sex for favors, like human whores for example, usually are in the bottom of their social group and live far less that the females on top. Drew Parker is right.
SO STOP DOING PORN, WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH THESE PEOPLE. 99% of the content looks like shit anyway.
Serious personality flaws? Then again, it is the oldest profession.
A female who says it is fun and she loves it as a purely physical act is a train wreck in process. They might be deserving of some pity but neither time nor money.
STOP DOING PORN, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!!! …and advice to girls if a guy says one thing degrading to you or tries to demean you in any way tell them to GO FUCK OFF AND NEVER TALK TO THEM AGAIN!! and don’t act like all men are like that because they are NOT.
Who’s to blame for public sexuality without reproductive enlightenment?
And why do caucasians seem to be the majority of performers and fans? Is the mind of sexual obsession defined by cerebral brains that lust too much, love too little and are self absorbed with selfish hedonism?
Why is this not so with 3rd worlders or illegal immigrants who breed like rabbits, outpopulate us and have less use for porn? It’s not just porn per say, but all media that puts an ominous damper on population perpetuation or demographic survival of a so-called civilized western world.
And it’s because most of us who live vicariously through the videotaped or filmed actions of others don’t have enough kids or families. Those who do in droves have made us the minority in CA, soon in America and already in the world. These are statistical facts. Google them.
The crucial issue of media sexuality gone wild is not the repression, depiction or perceived immorality of the sex act itself. It is rather sexual orgasm without species multiplication. For those of us who only value love and sex as a means of self gratification and not procreation are ultimately doomed to extinction.
In or out of porn.
to Forrest:great observations I think its a little too complex however I believe I can answer your questions. Q.Who is to blame? A.Men who take advantage of women with no intent to further their friendship in the future. Women who approach a positive situation over cautiously yet make invigorating advances towards selfish or self-destructive behavior. I don’t think the species multiplication topic is really the issue. People resort to porn as a last ditch effort to express their sexuality because they have not been successful as a group with others. Honestly I think the Men who are involved in porn are FAGS because they are unable to control the strong sexuality that the porn girls possess, and instead of making a better situation with the people they have at hand they rely on cameras, pictures ,internet ripoffs and garbage dvds to express what remaining talent they have. Take CumforCover from Indexxxed for example. 5 guys lined up next to each other who believe they are getting their dick sucked by a woman when in fact they are trading in homosexuality for whatever sexual gratification they think they are receiving. They are not MEN. They are FAGS. Lastly, I think the California mentality is the most to blame for crappy porn. The people in CA who produce, direct, perform in movies, music etc. are not street smart or down to earth. They live in la la land which can only be beneficial for themselves and does not contribute anything positive towards anyone else. Very simple answer NO MEN, ALL FAGS. NONE OF YOU WHO PRODUCE OR DIRECT PORN ARE MEN YOU ARE FUCKING FAGGOTS. YOU WANNA KNOW WHO SHOWS ANOTHER MAN HIS DICK?? THE LOSER!!!!! THAT’S WHO!! I’M TAKING ALL THE HOT BITCHES BACK FUCK YA’LL!!!!! AND FUCK THE HEFNER ENTERPRISE TOO!! YA’LL ARE BUT UGLY!!!!!
I’m thinking the best solution to this issue is for men to be emotionally available for their children.
Don’t fool yourself into thinking that your desire to ‘save’ the fallen women of this world is anything more than another control issue deriving from your own lack of personal development as an adult human being.
Land a suitable mate, make babies, show them all love. If you weren’t such an immature dick you could pull it off as easy as the rest of us.
But some of them do need saving. I know of women in the sex industry who are deeply unhappy with what they are doing and yet they seem unable to stop it. And so far the only help available comes from people like evangelical/fundamentalist christians, when there should be other types of help, (mainstream christian, secular) available.
Those who fall by the waysaide don’t need to be saved from porn. They need to replace a life of fame, fortune and drugs with love & family.
Look at Britney Spears. She’s living the party life of a smut slut and has lost her kids. Yet nobody blames the music business.
The fault for a life gone wrong lies in the stars and not in a starlet’s day job.
There is not one avenue of help available to regular people that doesn’t allow ‘porn stars’. Most of these girls, if not all, aren’t f*cked up from porn but something else like bipolar disorder, schitzophrenia, sexual abuse, drug abuse, PTS,etc. Once you strip away their delusions of grandeur regarding ‘stardom’ they are just ordinary human wreckage like the rest of us.
Besides, the last thing these girls need is to be ‘saved’ by emotionally undeveloped control freaks who find porn to be an acceptable replacement for real relationships.
I see the first big step being for them to just accept being a normal f*cking person with no driving need to stand out from everybody else. No ex-hooker booth at avn , no supportive ex-fans, no ministry website… nothing but reality for a while.
Not to say those who do run actual minstries are bad… just that 99% of the girls in porn can’t help themselves much less others. Save yourself one day at a time I guess.
Money
Music busines sucks, those people are phony homos
[…] Porn And Suffering: Reflections on Maryam Haley (lukeisback.com) Revealing “Bastardly” thread (bastardly.com) Pictures from “The Da Vinci Load” (gramponante.com) Haley Paige on IAFD (iafd.com) […]
[…] Porn And Suffering: Reflections on Maryam Haley (lukeisback.com) Revealing “Bastardly” thread (bastardly.com) Pictures from “The Da Vinci Load” (gramponante.com) Haley Paige on IAFD (iafd.com) […]
I would just like to say that Hailey always had a look in her eye that made me really think of her as a person,not a sex object.
I first saw her several years ago on a website that I could not name if I had to. She was just so innocent looking , and I really think she was. I believe she had a healthy appetite for sex,but really wanted people to know she was just an actress,that the pert she played was not really her.
I am saddened by not only her death, but by the way some people feel they have the right to pass judgment on this person’s life
Whatever your reason for watching her work, you were there watching it. It was what you wanted at the time. She provided a product thatpeople wanted.
I hoe she is in heaven( to my knowledge she never did anything that God could not forgive)
I know if my daughter was in the same line of work it would not make me love her any less
It’s very sad !
We will miss you Maryam(what a pretty name)