NL- Here are some tweets of what is happening at the Cal Osha meeting. One of the big issues that is not captured below is the work status of a porn performer. If they are an employee, that makes them under the govern of Cal-Osha. If porn performers are independent contractors that might make this whole thing a moot point. Depends on who gets to decide this definition. I will continue to add tweets to the bottom when I find interesting ones. Please add your comments if you are at the meeting…
Ela Darling-Think the condoms/porn debate doesn’t effect you? A girl-girl sex scene will require dental dams & gloves & there is no testing requirement.
Ela Darling-The room is packed. Seats are full, standing in the back. Going over definitions now. #CalOSHA
FSCArmy FreeSpeechCoalition-CalOSHA mtg update – there are about 60 – 70 industry peeps here, asking questions. Don’t think they expected such a turnout
MOXXX-BTW Derrick Burts who is here claimed he got HIV on a condom-only set just FYI
ChristianXXX-paul cambria is not only here, but in the 2nd row and speaking up vociferously in our defense. Glad he is here #calosha
Ela Darling-Discussing the def of "adult entertainment" so far Danny W. Cyd B & @Scififetish noted: the definition applies to Hollywood film and sports.
FSCArmy -Looks like CalOSHA is learning a lot about the realities of a porn set. Now will they listen 2 the people they r trying 2 regulate?
Ela Darling-Paul Cambria pointed out that adult performers are tested every thirty days, far more often than the general population.
Ela Darling-Performers are very stuck on comparing porn to ultimate fighting as far as expectation of transfer of blood or OPIM.
Missy Martinez: "if performers can’t make allusions to UFC then the board shouldn’t be able to keep making references to nurses & painters."
Ela Darling-Alia Jamine pointed out that the concept of being exposed is the job that we do and there are hazard that we accept as adults.
Lily Cade-Being here today i don’t think we can do much to prevent regulation. We must make sure we as performers are indeed independent contractors.
Christianxxx1 AHF wants to broaden the scope of producers to include anyone who hires independent contractors as liable for following the rules And that got derek hay, mark spiegler, shy love, and the rest of the industry speaking up against it.
Lunch break….
All this wonderful coverage below is from Pornlaw (Michael Fattorosi)
CalOSHA might be okay with oral without a condom if both performers have been vaccinated for Hep B & have a clean STD test with 2 weeks…
AHF agree that BJs without condoms are okay… Shelley Lubben & Pink Cross are against it.
According to CalOSHA the studios should work to provide free testing to talent by co-oping their buying power with labs & doctors.
Testing costs should be the responsibility of the Employer NOT the talent… But who should pay when talent works for several studios ?
CalOSHA has based its decision to increase testing based on the medical sub committee findings. Several doctors said more testing is a +…
Testing frequency should now be cut in half. Every 14 days instead of 30 days for condomless BJs…
Test results will only state whether a performer is cleared or not cleared to do oral without a condom. No more exact results.
Paul Cambria is making an argument against the record keeping provision of the new regs under a First Amendment challenge. These regs require record keeping much like 2257 also requires record keeping by the producers
The Moneyshot !!! Where to put the cum is up next ??
CalOSHA might be okay with ejaculate on intact skin. But no bodily fluids near orifices and non intact skin.
How is this even possible? When my husband and I were reading the AVN details on this. The didn’t eve have proper legislation.
I still think this is a scare tactic. It will never pass with what they want. This would hurt the 8 billion dollar’s a year porn makes! 70% of porn comes out of America. They in the end would only be hurting the economy more.
This is just absurd.
XOXOXOXO
KELLY
Is Shelley there? Is her head spinning around on her shoulders 360 degrees or did she start puking green pea soup yet (which of course is porn’s fault).
See my comment in another thread. Yes, she’s here, with no current performers (she has Jenni Case in tow, as well as a “recovering porn addict”) so she bolstered her numbers by bringing her adult daughter from a prostitution act. She has yet to speak.
Her “group”‘s presence is dwarfed by that of the adult industry contingent — many many of which have elected to wear FSC badge labels.
Eli Cross and Ernest Greene just tore it up. Dr. Peter Kerndt from LA County Dept of Public Health, who was just slapped down by a recent study entered into the record by FSC, is sitting mum.
OSHA estimated, at the end of the meeting, it would be another six months before any rule changes can/will move forward.
Here is something PornLaw said that I found disturbing – For purposes of CalOHSA all performers that are paid money to perform are employees.
Looks like the only person connected to the industry not attending this meeting is Donny Long. He is likely staying as far away as humanly possible for fear of getting his ass kicked by the entire crowd. Donny is such a little pussy.
What an interesting day. I mentioned on http://www.youtube.com/MonicaAtHome last night that I am coming out of retirement back to performing as long as it’s condom only, and it looks like condom only is the only option now anyhow.
Hehe.
@Kelli – That is NOT what was said.
From the Associated Press: http://www.sfexaminer.com/news/california/2011/06/state-discusses-rules-condom-use-porn?quicktabs_1=0
I laughed out loud when I read the opening line of Mike South’s report on the meeting he did not attend today:
“Talent turnout was higher than was expected but it was still very low with way less than 5% of performers attending. About 70 in all.”
Mike, G-d bless you, and I agree with your Libertarian conclusion to your piece, but you have got to be kidding. This was a huge turnout, and many, many of the attendees spoke up with intelligence and thoughtful concern. I was very proud of the adult industry today. Anyone actually IN the adult industry should be as well.
@jet_tits – No, Mike South wasn’t there either.
Does the porn industry pay much in taxes? I assume most porn stars pay local, state and national income taxes (well except for Janine Lindemulder). Do they need permits and other things that cost money?
I guess what I’m getting at is if they regulate the porn industry out of California (mandatory condoms for all sexual activity as well as face shields like they are talking about will most certainly kill the industry) and force it underground or to another state like Florida will California be losing anything?
I think I’ll write an op/ed on this instead of an extended comment, Cindi.
Do you morons REALLY think that I would drop the money to travel 3000 miles to attend this farce?
It doesn’t even have any influence on me one way or the other, and in this day and age I didn’t have to be there to hear what was said or to know that what is coming would still be coming whether 7 or 700 performers attended.
This is a done deal y’all only a moron would think otherwise.
No, Mike, I don’t think anyone here would expect you to attend an adult industry meeting. I can’t even remember the last time I saw you at one of the shows.
And THNK YOU CINDI for the play-by-play report. I showed it to attendees in real time, and they were heartened to see it.
Shelley Lubben is ridiculous. That is all.
The last show I attended was Internext Miami 2 years ago. The last adult expo show I attended was in 2007. Prior to that I hadnt missed an adult expo/CES show for 20 years, I also attended every VSDA and East Coast Video show until that time.
2007 was the year I realized it cost way more to attend than I got out of it. Combine that with spinal surgery in Feb of 2007 and I made the determination it wasn’t worth it.
Funny thing though…had I the mind to I could have gotten 200-300 or more performers in that meeting today, I could organize the talent, I have the know how and the political science education but if there is one thing I learned from porn…I’m not going to spend my own money to do it.
It would be wasted anyway…did I need to attend this farce to get the facts before even AVN put it up? AVN was there….
That’s one reason the FSC is so inefficient, they have no idea how to maximize the ROI, so they just keep throwing shallow rhetoric at the problem.
Get it through your heads…Cal-OSHA has already made up its mind what it is going to do, just like the FSC had when they held their “talent meetings” it isn’t a meeting, it’s a dictatorial decree with an audience.
and porners wonder why talent is apathetic……
In other news, pigs flew today…
UFC fighters are under the State Athletic Commision. THey are required by l aw to be HIV tested and pass other physical before being granted a license to fight by the state. There is no cmparison with porn performers.
Would the industry support MANDATORY testing, and physicals for performers, to grant a license to porn performers like the Nevada system of licesing brothel workers, or the California Athletic Commision for boxers and MMA fighters.
THere is one thing in this article above that shows that this entire series of meetings are a complete facrce, with a predetermined outcome.
CAL-OSHA HAS NO AUTHORIRY TO MANDATE PRE EMPLOYMENT TESTING. If they even talk about PRE EMPLOYMENT testing it shows that everything they are saying is bullshit.
Did anyone at the meeting even mention this? Or did anyone representing the industry EVEN KNOW THIS????
Of course it was known, and mentioned, Joe. Danny Wylde, Ernest Greene and people from FSC addressed the issue.
OSHA is attempting to do a ridiculous legal dance. The reality is, they are up against the problem that they are attempting to regulate only ONE kind of speech/entertainment: sexual/adult/pornographic. That is because they don’t want to step on the toes of the Hollywood studios. They even construe OPIM (other potentially infectious materials) to NOT include saliva, so that kissing scenes in Hollywood movies would remain not considered an “exposure incident.” It’s a joke, and a transparent one at that (Mr. Cambria scored points on this issue).
OSHA is attempting to parse different types of speech and prejudicially rank activities (violent activities like MMA are OK, sexual activities are not).
And now they are talking about carving out an exception to the Blood-Borne Pathogen standard for oral sex — as long as the performer gets tested bi-weekly and gets vaccinated. OSHA is claiming, “Oh, no, that’s not a MANDATE for testing — it’s just an option.” It’s BS, and the flaws in both the process AND the recommendation were readily apparent to all in attendance.
As for UFC fighters, as long as porn performers are not licensed by the state, then yes, there is no legal comparison — but the issue becomes whether or not the state legislature is willing to carve out a VARIANCE for adult performers. The idea was also raised to use stunt performers as a closer analogy than Hollywood actors.
All in all, it’s the kind of situation that demonstrates that “cluster” is only half a word.
OSHA is caught in the middle, sure, but I have little sympathy for them. This is what happens when you tolerate people like Michael Weinstein and Peter Kerndt. OSHA wanted no part of this, but AHF complained and they were requited to proceed. Then LA County (in the guise of fellow Weinstein ass-suckers Kerndt and Kim-Farley, the latter ALSO of UCLA) trumped up some numbers to establish need — an epidemic — and away they went.
The OSHA reps looked like they wanted to be ANYWHERE else.
OSHA is NOT caught in the middle. They are biased. From the moment they got caught in the money game fining companies for not having condoms they established a precedent before taking the due ethically required time to review all the facts; in particular, the facts about condoms. That’s why they are being selective about what they hear and don’t hear at this point. They are as bad as the AHF. They are as corrupt as any other gov’t bureacracy… They are as corrupt as they have been in the past. They’re in it for the money and once they levied those fines they no longer became objective but opportunistic! Stay tuned. I left all my notes at Lucky’s but I’ve got most of the notes in my head.
I see your point.
Damn. I shouldn’t have had all those drinks @ PSK. I have a lot of good notes but they are in the back of Lucky’s car. I think I’ll manage without them. I’m gonna write an op/ed about this fuckin’ shit. It was an outrage some of the garbage OSHA was spewing, how they treated us and refused to listen! To say their policy is one dimensional is speaking too highly of them!
I’ve never met Mike South, so all of my information comes from what other people tell me. I acknowledge that this is second-hand, which is always inaccurate; so, please tell me where I’m wrong.
It is my understanding that Mike South is an old man who lives with his mother in Georgia. His claim to fame is that, 25 years ago, he won an AVN amateur award. He can’t afford to attend industry events. He doesn’t do business of any significance with anyone in the industry. He can’t even get his phone calls answered by any of the people who actually know what’s going on. Basically, he’s a glorified groupie who has bullied his way into industry conversations.
If even half of this is true, then I’m confused. Why don’t people call this guy on his bull-shit? Why doesn’t anybody challenge him, just once, to put his money where his mouth is? He claims that he can get 500 performers to assemble in one place at one time. PROVE IT. Name the cause. Select the event. Choose the time and place. Anything you want. You tell us when and where you will have 500 performers assembled and then DO IT.
Why doesn’t anyone ever tell this guy to “PUT UP, OR SHUT UP!”
Can’t wait to read..I agree with Jeremy! This is nothing unusual big brother see another industry they can tax and regulate into oblivion just like cigarettes, automobiles, and oil. They see a billion dollar industry they can profit from and regulate.
Stupid iPhone weird was supposed to be weird ^^^^^ damn auto-correct.
I don’t think the House or the Senate will try to inhibit sales of porn. Meaning it wont pass! Porn is an 8 billion dollar machine, and 85 % of that porn coming out of America. I personally think this is a scare tactic. I don’t believe it will ever be enforced. It will take probably a year for any of this to go in effect if it even does. By 8 months time they will call another meeting and we will probably debate and argue again. It’s basically a think tank and scare tactic. That will be drawn out for years.
I will have to read more on the laws. But Cal-Osha states that condoms have been mandatory since 1993, and we haven’t followed those guidelines. That testing is voluntary only. I personally could care less if condoms are used or not used. As long as it’s the performers choice and not the studios to use or not use and everyone is TESTED!! I think it’s utterly ridiculous how OSHA says the medical advisory committee has indicated with barrier protection there is NO necessity 4 screening in terms of regulation. WOW JUST WOW! Look at the trouble the gay industry has been in with STD’s, because of this same thinking. CONDOMS BREAK! I would NEVER EVER EVER perform with an actor or actress that wasn’t tested and just came to set with a condom. You gotta be joking!
On the Shelley Lubben’s of the world! Every industry in entertainment business has its corruption. The Shelley Lubben’s of the world don’t talk about the companies who test, use condoms already, and treat their actresses and actors with total respect. Companies like Kink for example make you feel safe and in total control and they are BDSM company. They also don’t talk about the actresses and actors who are professionals and live good clean living lifestyles.
Shelley and Shelley Lubbens of the world – there are plenty of mainstream actresses and singers that were raped, controlled, taken advantage of, and have drug, alcohol, and mental illnesses. The list in the mainstream industry can go on and on too, but you don’t speak on things like that do you? Oh right drug, alcohol, and sex abuse is only in the porn industry! If they had their way they’d blame porn for terrorism. Even if it’s not true.
As a former pornstar I think fame in any sense can be lonely. Especially when you are stuck in a role to play for your fans. That’s why I never played a role I was just me! Plus if you move to California and only people you know are business associates that can be lonely as well. If you don’t make any real friends from it. So if you don’t find a support system it can be very hard on you. The entertainment business whether mainstream or adult is hard on you. I honestly believe a support system is needed by all. Whether it be in porn or mainstream or in life in general. I’ve heard that fame and love can’t live in the same place. I believe that is true for people who aren’t mentally capable to either choose between the two or can’t differentiate the two. Let’s face it there are plenty of men and women who join the entertainment industry mainstream or adult that can’t handle the fame or the job. That’s the reasons we see the suicide rates and drug and alcohol abuse we do from the Entertainment industry period. Some people just get tied up in the lifestyle of partying and having whatever you want. There isn’t necessarily a bad life or bad past there. It depends on person to person, some handle it well and others don’t.
I’m returning to porn in 2012 with my husband. I retired a year and a half ago, but I never saw the things Shelley speaks of personally. I did almost a 100 scenes when I was in the industry solo/hardcore. I was also a make-up artist for mainstream and transsexual talent. So I’ve been on sets when mainstream talent was performing as a make up artist and I’ve been on set with other models that I was waiting for them to get done with their scenes so I could do my own scenes. I never saw a pile dirty rags, rape, mistreatment from male models or directors, or any of the stuff she is speaking about. Not to say it doesn’t go on, but I don’t think it goes on as much as she says it does. The only thing I have heard is where women do lose the job if she wants a condom to be used. Which again I think is a personal choice and should always be up to the model, and as long as everyone is TESTED!
On escorting, I believe a lot escorts turn pornstars to heighten their hourly value and free advertising. I don’t think everyone in porn turns to escorting, but many of them do. The sex industry is the sex industry it is what it is. HOWEVER to the Shelley Lubbens of the world there are many of us that try to make a living just off our porn performing, websites, appearances, and webcamming. I made a pretty penny doing all of those things and still do.
Shelley Lubben also says she contracted HPV and Herpes from porn. It’s well known that HPV occurs in people who have lots of sexual partners. And it’s more susceptible and can cause cervical cancer in women. That being said, HPV is not just a porn STD! Shelley, I have had friends that were not involved in the sex industry in any fashion who have contracted HPV and then had tumors or cervical cancer they had to surgically remove. Shelley you admitted yourself in one interview you escorted from 18 to 26 and then another interview it was 18 to 24….so whichever one it is whose to say when or how you contracted these diseases. Especially since you said in your day many times and even now don’t test for HPV or herpes. It’s easy to blame the porn industry. In a phrase you use regularly – YOUR WORDS NOT MINE :)! So really how then can you pinpoint it just from the porn industry. In the 100 scenes I did – I NEVER SHOWED UP WITH ANY STD’s it’s because I tested and I used condoms. I have tested for all panels as well I have tested at AIM when it was still in business. I personally made performers test 48 hours out a lot of the time before I’d do a scene with them and still used a condom. Yes, I am fully aware of the 12 day grace period that HIV can go undetected. I figure most models get tested once a month, and I normally would book my scenes the middle of the month so that was basically another 12 days out for them to test again.
Shelley Lubben in another one of her speeches CLAIMS she never met a pornstar who isn’t drugged out or hasn’t came from a bad past. That 90% of us are all drugged out and drunks. As they say in AA, Hi Shelley nice to meet you I’m Kelly Shore! I personally never did drugs (that’s including xanax, vicodin, and what not, I never drink, and I definitely don’t smoke. So it’s very nice to meet you and I can say the same for many of my friends who are in the industry. That are loving moms, wives, and girlfriends. You know good moms and good wives! Who look at it as a job and leave the drama at the office and come home to a good decent home. YET YOU DON’T TALK ABOUT THOSE WOMEN or MEN or TRANSSEXUALS!
I am not in anyway trying to downplay the girls that feel victimized by the porn industry, but there are lot of people inside and outside the entertainment industry whether it be mainstream or adult that do have trouble pasts. Who have never felt love or guidance in life. Who have taken their lives or addicted to some type of drug or get into hard partying living it up and can’t handle it. HOWEVER SHELLEY, to the ones in the industry whose to say they weren’t drinking and drugging and partying trying to forget before they got into the porn industry or trying to have a rock hard time before they leave this world? Every industry has it’s good apples and bad apples. Every industry has corruption! Shame on you Shelley and the Shelley’s of the world only speaking about the bad and not bringing up ANY of the good. There are plenty of good companies and good people in this industry that I am proud to know and I have worked for! I have met plenty of sane, drug and alcohol free pornstars. Who are intelligent and love their job. Not to mention on top of that been to porn parties during AVN or other venues where I never saw anything crazy go on or drugs.
Shelley, I obviously watched some of your speeches given at churches. The devil made you do it! RIIGGGGGGGGGGGGHTTTTT! You are woman with issues, trying to pass the buck. You are no better than the staunch Republicans who are against gay marriage and porn who get caught with their zipper down or sucking dick. You play this holier than thou act, and use the women you “HELP”. So how is it any better? You befriend them and then talk them into speaking out for you or use what they have told you which I’m sure isn’t always honest to get help from you. But you don’t care as long as you can use it! It’s easy to persuade someone or for someone who feels they hit rock bottom or isn’t making any money in scenes to lie or to see it as an opportunity to get help! Again not saying all the women you helped didn’t have real issues or problems in the industry. I’m just saying not all! But what’s fucked up from what I understand you say yes I’ll help you, as long as you tell me everything so I can use it for my own vendetta. How “helpful” of you! You even admitted yourself in one of your speeches you are a hustler and you are hustling to get people to believe the shit you spew with scare tactics and people who are not in the adult industry.
Sweet Kisses,
Kelly
http://secretkelly.com/2011/06/08/about-cal-osha-and-shelley-lubben-and-the-shelley-lubbens-of-the-world/ An entry I wrote on Cal Osha and Shelley Lubben 🙂
Michael,
Congratulations on helping to organize all of those performers. The turnout was astonishing. Truly awesome, and keep up the momentum. All us porn fans are counting on you…
I said before that you weren’t a kingmaker…that’s gonna change…
@Kelly — Bravo to your research and analysis! Every performer should speak up and make it clear that Shelley Lubben DOES NOT represent them in ANY sense of the word. That point was made abundantly clear by numerous attendees of yesterday’s meeting.
By the way, Kelly, Lubben claims she was not diagnosed with HPV until approximately five years after she left the industry.
For a further, detailed deconstruction of the Lubben myth (a self-created myth), I recommend visiting TheDevilAndShelleyLubben.com if you haven’t already. Episodes 3 & 4 are imminent — I put off completing them due to more important work helping performers in advance of yesterday’s OSHA meeting.
But, to clear up the matter of her prostitution work, she says she was a hooker for SIX years before getting into porn, AND while she was sidelining in porn (for a little over a year, only making 17 known videos), AND after she washed out of porn, in 1994, prior to marrying Gary the meth dealer from Chino (of whom she now says, ““He was a friend to a prostitute, just like Jesus.” — Salvo Magazine, 2010)
She has also never offered ANY proof that she ever had herpes, as she claims. She now says, conveniently, that G-d told her He cured her of it. When I asked her to prove she’d ever had it, she said, “Prove I didn’t.” That’s the kind of charlatan and con artist she is.
Michael, thank you for the added things to research on her! It’s just appalling and offensive to hear the things she claims about 90% of us when that number is not even accurate. To me she is a a woman with issues, passing the mental buck for a profit.
You aren’t doing porn anymore Shelley, but you are still profiting off it!
@origen – Thank you VERY much for the kind words; they mean a lot to me. I’m working hard at this fight, but I don’t deserve more than a small portion of the credit. The true warriors here are the members if this industry who are demonized, abused, insulted and degraded at every turn by the despicable Lubbens of the world, who nonetheless had the courage to turn out, stand up, and make their case like smart, powerful , concerned citizens and activists: Jessica Drake; Julia Ann, Shy Love; Nina Hartley; Nicki Hunter; Danny Wylde, Ela Darling; Eli Cross; Darryl Hanah: Paris Kennedy; Kara Price; Christian Mann and many more.
The unsung heroes are people like Cindi, who invited me to write the “Call to Arms” Op/ED here on LIB (and for which I am grateful beyond words); Dan from Girlfriends Films; Melissa Monet (who was in NY and couldn’t attend but got the word out); and all of the readers here and elsewhere who wrote and tweeted about this cause.
We have the will, and we have the momentum. I will work to ensure that both will grow in the months to come. Ignore the haters, the disgruntled, the failures and the sell-outs. Expose the hypocrites. And support the RIGHT to free speech, free expression, sexuality, and equality.
@Kelly – Yes, she’s just another hypocrite profiting off porn while excoriating it. And Shelley doesn’t just have issues — she’s got a subscription!
@origen – There’s a comment in currently in moderation thanking you for your kind words.
@Kelly…
Shelley does not bring up all the stable porn stars with a happy home life because she can’t exploit them to put money in her pocket. Her Christian Mafia uses fear and beats the drums to manipulate the situation to her advantage.
If she interviewed 100 porn stars and 99 of them said they are happy and have no drug or alcohol issues and were never raped and 1 girl said she was raped or had a meth problem guess which one shelley would be going after?
@Karmafan – It goes back to her predatory nature: In Shelley’s caricature of the porn industry, “crooked” pornographers lurk around seeking sexualized young females — most if not all of whom are victims of sexual abuse and parental neglect, leaving them emotionally “needy” — and they tell them things they’ve longed to hear like, “You’re so beautiful,” and “You should be a star.”
Then, “a few compliments later,” followed by some seductive offer, they find themselves being drawn into a world where they’re photographed, put on video, and exploited for the profit of others. Then, she says, “with open arms and warm smiles,” they’re given “calm assurances” because “Deception is rife throughout the entire grooming process.”
The term “seasoning” has been used to describe what happens to a victim after being harmed. Predators can sense the vulnerability of a previously-harmed “seasoned” individual and use that as a factor in deciding whether to pursue a potential victim.
Shelley reminds me a lot of her own caricature of a pornographer. She identifies performers in distress or conflict, and inundates them with emails and messages via social media offering guidance, invitations to her “beautiful home,” and a shoulder to cry on. They’re told that they’re “made for something better” and promised assistance. Carrots are dangled before them. But first they’re asked to pose for photos with Shelley and record testimonial videos which she uses as fundraising tools.
As for her cherry-picking of case-studies and facts, I’ll quote Brooke Ashley: “Shelley hears what she wants to hear.”
Don’t forget Michael, Shelley also lies and intimidates with promises of immaculate cures and the fear that God has spoken to her and that they’re going to hell…
There’s some very interesting tweeting going on today between Shy Love (who was great at the Cal-OSHA meeting), Kelly Shores and Mrs. Lubben regarding Shelley and Michelle “hiccup” Avanti. You should check it out.
By way of background, Michelle/Madelyne spoke briefly at the meeting stating that she had contracted a bunch of STDs while in the porn business. One of her former agents in the room (not Shy Love — ol’ Maddy went through several) answered, “That’s because you were drunk all the time and fucked anything that moved.”
The Twitter thread between Shy and Shelley (@slubben) picks up on that. It’s a great read.
I bring this up because the night before the meeting I received some nearly indecipherable messages on Facebook from Madelyne’s FB account. Whether it was Shelley or Maddy writing me I have no idea, but among the things she wrote was that I was “satan’s bitch.” I then reported the messages to Facebook
No, you cunt, I AM Satan. Fuck you.
One more thing — I forgot to mention Jeremy Steele’s contribution to the meeting, which was terrific — I’ll leave it to him to provide the details.
So true about Shelley!
I’m waiting for what Jeremy has to say 🙂
@KellyShore, some good points but the $8 billion dollar figure may be an exaggeration. From the figures I have read it is more like $750-$1 billion.
HPV is a sexually transmitted disease and though there is a test for women, there is no test for men other then examining for genital warts (which only accounts for a few strands of the more then 150 strands that are out there). If every woman had a annual or semi annual pap smear, cervical cancer would almost be eradicated. I think every woman actively working in the industry should get a pap smear once a year.
@Michael Whiteacre
The XBIZ headline to me at least puts a somewhat negative spin on the meeting, what do you think?
http://www.xbiz.com/news/glbt/134848
As far as Shy Love goes, I’m not sure that she should be the spokesperson for this issue. Shy recently went out of her way to notify agents and studios of Derrick Burts girlfriend trying to return to the porn industry recently but sending out a release that had her legal name on it. She also says she won’t use male talent that have shot gay porn recently but has at least one on her roster. The same with Derek Hay who sent out an email to a bunch of agents that said not to book girls with male talent that have worked in gay porn within the last 6 months but has a few girls on his roster that he books for Next Door Male and Jake Cruise to work with men that primarily work in the gay side of the industry. I guess I just see a lot of hypocrisy there, and like it or not it was a crossover performer that got the industry into the mess that is in now. If the industry doesn’t address those issues, then I don’t know if they can be able to fight CAL/OSHA.
@chichiladouche – I think Lyla missed a few of the subtleties of the discussion — such as the fact that Paul Cambria was assuredly NOT arguing FOR a content-based distinction/regulation, he was accusing OSHA of making one. As someone who was there, I can say that while it contains useful info, it is not the best report of the day.
As I understand, Burts’ girlfriend’s real name had already been published. I never met her but I already knew it. Regarding Shy’s stand on crossovers, or what claims she has made about the matter, I have no information about that, but I’m willing to read any you can recommend. In any case, neither of these matters has a direct bearing on the OSHA regs at issue.
Also, I did not imply that Shy Love is a spokesperson for the industry on this or any other issue — Shy Love is a spokesperson for herself, as was every other performer, producer, agent or director there. The fact that there is a fairly uniform view between these individuals vis-a-vis the OSHA regs was the impression that they left with the advisory committee — and appropriately so.
In my estimation, the crossover “issue” is actually the gay porn business issue, for if that side of the industry were tested uniformly like the “straight” side, there would be no crossover issue.
As for HPV, you are again correct, and according to the CDC, approximately 50% of sexually active men and women will get it at some point in their lives.
One of the pivot points of the meeting was this exchange:
“I want to get this absolutely clear, because I think my common sense just curled up and died in a corner,” said Eli Cross. “I understand that what CalOSHA is saying is that our old system of internal mandatory testing, which caught HIV and stopped it, was not good enough. Instead, what you are mandating is that anyone who comes to work, to work only with a condom, has to be allowed to work whether they have HIV or not, and then, if they infect someone, after the fact, or after the fact, if there is an exposure event, then we have to test them—and this is your common sense approach to our industry which has policed itself effectively for years; is that what I really understand you saying? You show up with a condom, and HIV or not, and we have to employ you? This is your solution? Honestly? I want it on the record: That is what this states; correct, in simple terms?”
“I’m going to say this, and I’m going to explain again, and then we’re going to move on,” OSHA’s Deborah Gold replied. “The gay industry, for example — a lot of the gay industry, doesn’t test, uses condoms; that’s how they stop HIV.”
“Without testing, how do you know?” I asked, loudly.
It’s a mess, and the OSHA members in attendance were not willing and, frankly, not prepared to answer a whole host of questions. They have A LOT of more work to do before this can proceed to the Standards Board — ESPECIALLY in light of the new report that LACDPH trumped up the industry STI numbers in order to give AHF the “epidemic” they wanted, as pretext to prove a need to OSHA.
@Michael Whiteacre and there lies the big problem with the gay industry as far as testing goes. Someone from the industry, maybe Chi Chi LaRue said if the gay industry did the same testing procedures like the straight industry has done there wouldn’t be much of a gay porn industry left.
One of the first fines CAL/OSHA gave out was to a gay barebacking porn company (Treasure Island Media). Right before their fine, the company put out a statement that they had just signed a HIV+ performer to an exclusive contract and in the statement also mentioned a +/- couple who work for them. Bareback porn in the gay industry is probably the top selling genre now.
Michael is FSC fighting as vigorously for the gay studios that do exclusively condomless as they are the straight porn studios that do it? Did anyone from the gay side of the industry show up to the meeting yesterday? Had someone from Treasure Island or another company that produced gay bareback porn showed up, would the other attendees been okay with it, and would they have had any issues with them speaking on the issues? The reason I ask is that if I just wonder if having a company that doesn’t require testing and uses talent of unknown status would have deflated the arguments the other performers were making.
Oh oops! I have heard a bunch of different numbers as well! I just went with the highest one to be safe! I figured I’d get less berated with the higher number! LMAO
@chichiladouche – If the gay industry is so full of sick performers, then that’s the gay industry’s problem — and one they need to address with testing. In my opinion, they need to step up. But by the same token, if two gay performers know each other’s status and, with this informed consent, agree to work together, they have every right to do so. Testing allows for screening AND surveillance, and provides a basis for informed consent.
I can’t speak for other attendees, but I would have no problem with anyone with a vested interest in the adult industry speaking at any meeting concerning the adult industry. And, no, I don’t agree an alternate point of view “would have deflated the arguments the other performers were making” for the same reason that I gave above — they were each speaking on their own behalf. Everyone with a stake in this should be part of the dialogue, but my personal view is that the industry (gay and straight) needs more rigorous testing, not less.
AHF once called AIM a “fig leaf.” That’s a sick joke when AHF’s “answer” is condoms as the heart of a regime that does not/can not mandate testing.
I don’t know I may sound like a staunch bitch and judgmental! But I don’t think you should be able to perform if you are HIV positive. It just opens the door for more ridicule, when we have enough ridicule as it is. We as an industry should hold ourselves to a higher standard in my opinion.
I think testing is important in every genre. And that’s very sad if there wouldn’t be much of a gay industry left if they tested regularly. Kind of gross too.
I think to perform is a privilege, not a right
Getting back to what I said earlier )in this thread or another thread), Does the citys and state of California make any money off of porn? Are they trying to save the porn industry in their state (for taxes and liscences) or is this whole mess to just get rid of porn in CA?
If the porn industry has an annual sales of 8 billion (or 750 mil-1 bil depending on who you talk to) I assume the state makes a good amount of money off of fees and taxes and its in their best interest to try and keep the porn production in CA.
@Karmafan – Of course it’s in the state’s best interest to keep all that business here — but OSHA is not permitted to factor that in its process. However, the politicians in Sacramento will appropriately factor that in should a variance be requested by the adult industry.
Of course HIV+s should not work, Kelly Shore, unless it’s with other HIV+s. It’s amazing that the gay industry’s policy only focuses on condoms, regardless of HIV-status when condoms fail upwards to 10% of the time (and potentially much higher when taking into consideration micro-small, virus-size particles) and that OSHA has no concern about this issue (actually the latter, is not so amazing, given how corrupt and incompetent they are).
Also, performing is both a priviledge AND a right!
@Michael Whitacre
I think we are on the same page, with some things but IMO the issues with HIV+ gay performers becomes an issue of the straight industry when the talent pools are mixed together. Also, I can’t say I agree with that the argument wouldn’t somewhat be deflated if a bareback gay company threw themselves into the ring. CAL/OSHA is gathering every possible piece of evidence/proof on mandatory condoms. I think if someone who works in the gay side of the industry defended barebacking it would have hurt the industry’s argument about safety issues. That being said, Michael from what I understand, HIV+ performers in the gay industry contracted it not on a porn shoot but in their private lives which opens up a another can of worms.
@MrsKellyShore its no secret that many, maybe most of the guys on the gay side bareback in their personal lives. I’m going to paraphrase what someone else wrote here-it puts a whole new danger into the industry that maybe wasn’t there 10-15 years ago when the guy you are working with on a Bang Bros fuck team 5/college rules shoot took two civilian loads in his ass a few days before the shoot but presents a 6 day old STD test. To me that is a frightening thing to think about. I realize that there are closet cases working exclusively in the straight industry as well who may very well do the same thing, but I think it happens on a much smaller scale.
The current HIV stats among young gay men aren’t promising as far as going down. A uniform testing system would be great for every part of the industry, but until that happens, stuff like Patient Zeta will come up. IMO, any performer who has done gay barebacking porn should not be allowed to work with anyone in the straight industry. It’s harsh and segregation but no one should have their life put at risk.
@Michael Whiteacre, has there ever been any kind of report or study that shows how much tax revenue the porn industry generates in CA each year? How much of the industry is left in CA now? It seems South Florida has taken quite a bit of the industry away from porn valley.
@chichiladouche – Absent testing, there is absolutely no way to know where (or whether) gay performers contracted HIV, or anything else. There is also no way to screen infected performers, and prevent them from entering the industry.
And, absolutely, there can be a problem when the talent pools are mixed together because of the lack of universal testing on the gay side.
I’m not aware of any such study, but there might be some good estimates out there. I don’t know. But a reliable study certainly would be useful.
That’s just scary Michael..very scary!
Kelly, how is life treating you nowadays? being married and all. Are you living in Chi-town? nice to hear from you. glad that you’re coming back to porn! I and alot of others have missed you!
If I sold a snack or a food and it was known to cause cancer the govt. would shut my company down so fast it would make my head spin. Yet all over the country and the world cigarettes are sold. The only reason why they are allowed to be sold (even tho everyone knows they cause cancer and all kinds of other shit) is because every city and state relies on the tax money generated from cigarette sales to keep their states afloat.
My nephew is a pretty good tattooist. His parlor has to follow strict guidelines for the handling and sterilization of needles, he has to wear gloves, the inspectors sometimes make random visits to make sure they are complying with the laws and take training on handling of bodily fluids and all kinds of shit just to work in a tattoo parlor.
I’m guessing its the same with the porn industry in CA. I just can’t see OSHA and the other agencies allowing porn shoots where bodily fluids are exchanged (and the cleanup after a shoot) and being so lax on enforcement of the rules (mandatory condom use on every scene, etc…) unless the state is raking in the cash from fees and taxes.
@Karmafan – The state of California is not only raking in cash (how much is unclear) but it lacks the money for adequate enforcement even if it wanted to do so. This is a terrible situation for Cal-OSHA, but can be a big advantage for the adult industry.
The historical background makes it clear that OSHA did not want to (or were encouraged by Sacramento NOT TO) get involved in this — numerous factors have been cited –who knows which constituted the primary ones. My guess is that they knew/know that they are treading on extremely dangerous ground regarding a MUCH MUCH LARGER portion of state revenues: the mainstream entertainment industry. This is because the porn situation is extremely problematic from a free speech/free expression/right to be left alone/right to do business perspective. But this is what happens when you tolerate people like Michael Weinstein and Dr. Peter “I’ll get those numbers for you” Kerndt — people who make it CLEAR that they oppose THE CONTENT of modern porn — and their soulless foot-soldiers like Dr. Paula “Mylanta” Tavrow and Mark Roy “I’ve worked at UCLA & LA County & AHF” McGrath.
I can promise you, this process is not going to get any easier on Cal-OSHA. The heat is on, and it’s here to stay.
Awe thanks! I’m quite well Pornfan…bringing hubby to the dark side. That was a big decision on his part due to him being a JD/MBA. We are opening up a solo site together which will be similar to Kelly Madison’s and a Mult-girl sites – for mainstream female and male talent and for transsexual talent as well. I don’t want to limit myself to one genre. This time around though my site will be a 100 percent owned by me – which is how I should of done my first one. I still reside in Chicago. I love it here! I’ll be going to the Xbiz summit this weekend, which I am excited about!
I plan on making more public appearances and networking more in 2012 – so this time next year you will be telling me to go away! lol
xoxoxo
Kelly
I’ll see you there at XBiz, Kelly — I’ll call you with my schedule.
Looking forward to discussing how we can foster more pro-sex, pro-freedom libertarian activism in the Windy City and beyond. The authoritarians who want to control our lives, and what we can or can’t see and read, don’y only reside in California.
Sounds like a great thing to talk about! Can’t wait!!
Just to throw it out there… The ridiculous Witch Hunt thrown out against Satanist Cults. From Live Science:
Throughout the 1980s and early 1990s, a rash of child abuse cases horrified America. Children accused adults of ritual rapes, torture, and abuse, and the news media reported the sensational stories. Often the accusations included charges of Satanism. The pinnacle was Geraldo Rivera’s infamous NBC special “Devil Worship: Exposing Satan’s Underground,” which aired on Oct. 28, 1988. Rivera relied on self-proclaimed “Satanism experts,” misleading and inaccurate statistics, crimes with only tenuous links to Satanism, and sensationalized media reports. In what was the largest viewership for a documentary in television history, Rivera claimed that an organized, Satanic conspiracy was at work killing babies, murdering innocents, and conducting ghastly rituals. “There are over one million Satanists in this country,” Rivera said, adding that “The odds are, [they] are in your town.” Rivera presented no proof; the lack of evidence was seen as proof of how well organized and shrewd the Satanic conspiracy really was. Yet little evidence supports claims about Satanic cults or conspiracies. In a 1992 report on ritual crime, FBI agent Kenneth Lanning concluded that the rampant rumors of ritual murders, cannibalism, and kidnapping were unfounded. Phillips Stevens, Jr., associate professor of anthropology at the State University of New York at Buffalo, said that the widespread allegations of crimes by Satanists “constitute the greatest hoax perpetrated upon the American people in the twentieth century.”
Check out the book “The Ultimate Evil” by Maury Terry. You can find it here:
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Evil-Truth-Murders-Beyond/dp/0760713936/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1307584961&sr=1-2
I commend you Michael, but I don’t think its right to personally disparage people on the other side of the debate. (ie Michelle Avanti–its true, by her own admission, that she was drunk all the time but she didn’t attack any specific individual so the remark about her seems disproportionately harsh) It sickens me as much as Lubben’s and AHF’s exaggerations. The Industry is better than that. At least I hoped so. Anyway, you know my opinions on this matter, so no need for a response.
Reading Slubben’s twitter:
You are not just exaggerating, you are lying. Sure you may be vehemently against porn but you are literally disgracing the anti-porn movement.
And you should keep girls like Michelle Avanti out of the limelight. Stop grooming them to do your bidding. They should live their own lives and accomplish their own dreams without pushing your agenda. Stop extorting them with your friendship and help them become more emotionally balanced and financially independent.
@origen – I wouldn’t have gone there had she not harassed and taunted me the night before the meeting. Believe me, had I wished I could have revealed much more and much worse — instead, I stuck to reporting things that were said and that actually occurred at and around the time of the meeting.
As we all learned in The Breakfast Club, you mess with the bull you get the horns. I didn’t start this with ol’ Maddy — she did when 1) she communicated with me via Facebook (unbidden), and 2) she made a public statement at an important hearing which opened up the issue of her culpability and irresponsibility.
But you don’t know for sure if she attacked you. Unless she said something to your face…
But fair enough, I guess she is fair game. I wonder if she is emotionally strong enough to take such harsh criticism. I’m not saying she’s a weak person but she is a person who claims to be recovering.
@origen
Even before the last couple of days, Michelle Avanti has had some extremely disparaging words for the adult industry, and, as far as I know, has not rescinded them… If you make comments, especially unfounded ones, even from the past (which I understand this isnt the case), you must be prepared for the retort, no matter when it comes…
What Im saying is, even if she wouldn’t have Facebooked Michael, he would have been justified in his response…
But there is a difference between disparaging an entire industry and publicly humiliating an individual.
Anyway, I got nothing else to say.
@origen
Thats life… If someone spoke out against my industry, I would target them. Just as I would expect to be targeted if I went after an industry…
That kind of logic brought down Elliot Spitzer…
And what Michael said had directly to do with Michelle’s credibility, not just a personal rant.
No, what brought down Elliot Spizter was that he bought a hooker using campaign funds…
@origen – With respect, how could she NOT be emotionally strong? Lubben SAYS she’s now strong. Lubben is counseling her — wouldn’t she know? Lubben thinks she’s strong enough to be videotaped and used as a promotional and fundraising tool.
She’s certainly strong enough to follow Lubben around and give testimony. Strong enough to sit in a room full of people that knew her back then. A room full of people she helped demonize — without offering any proof.
She’s strong enough to feed stories to Lubben that Lubben uses to attack individuals in the porn industry. (Did you read the tweets with Shy Love today?)
He did not use campaign funds. If he did, he would be in jail…
The point is, he was seeking to regulate (and possibly prosecute) the NY financial industry and they, in turn, tipped off the feds to his bank account activity–exposing his connections to prostitution.
However, even with Spitzer removed from office, did the criticisms against the financial industry stop? Were they dis-proven or discredited? I don’t think so.
Attack the arguments, not the people. That has always been my philosophy when it comes to debating public policy.
Nope Origen, campaign funds… Look up Spitzer at the Mayflower Hotel… The point is, the guy was doing something wrong… No matter. who leaked it he was doing something wrong…
Spitzer brought himself down…
Well, just so you know Voltaire, I have found no credible source which determines, with certainty, that Spitzer used campaign funds to hire escorts.
@origen – You write, “Attack the arguments” and I agree. Therfore, when people make themselves the center of their argument, they rightly become the center of criticism.
That is precisely what Lubben and Avanti did.
@origen
Go to damn Wikipedia and look under the ‘Ethics’ portion in Spitzer’s wiki…
And no shit you’re not gonna find ‘with certainty’. Those fuckers never get busted for that shit, as long as they resign… Look at Ensign.
Oh, and by the way, Im leaning toward agreeing with ‘Idontbelieveyou’…
The stuff I heard at that meeting was UNBELIEVABLE! There was no basis in reality.
BTW, no one has yet mentioned the “expert” from UCLA who said that, for safety reasons, the industry could turn to using MALLOX to fake popshots!
I just couldn’t believe what I was hearing. At one point I actually pulled out my phone and started playing the theme from “The Twilight Zone.”
I remember at the first meeting OSHA spoke about possibly removing condoms visually in post production. These people are jackasses!
Sorry that I am a bit late to the discussion, but I wanted to say thanks to you Michael for your efforts in this fight of ours (and to Danny Wylde as well). I was there for the first few hours of the meeting, but unfortunately I had to go to work after lunch.
But I was impressed with the turnout of performers as well. I was glad that it was mostly compromised of the veteran female performers who lent an air of experience and knowledge to what they said. I am firmly convinced that we only need Julia Ann, Nicki Hunter, Nina Hartley, Shy Love, and a few others and things would always go our way.
I think Deborah Gold and the rest of the CAL-OSHA board, Shelley Lubben, and the AHF were surprised at not only the turnout, but the unequivocal support of testing rather than condoms. I think they expected more girls to be pro-condom.
I am curious why Michael Weinstein wasn’t there. I am curious why Shelley Lubben’s husband wasn’t there. I am curious why crazy Anita Cannibal didn’t speak up more. I am curious why Derrick Burts/Cameron Reed was there but didn’t say anything (there must have been an AHF plan for him). I am curious why Chris Fox, Kevin Kline, OC Modeling, and Robert at 101 weren’t there. I am curious why Jeremy Steel was wearing dark sunglasses inside a well-lit room inside of a building.
Last, I am very glad that Bryn Pryor was there. He is a tad bitter, but as a debater he is second to none.
That meeting was the best I have been to in terms of adult industry show of strength. I hope we can keep it up (okay that was lame – lol).
My sunglasses were not dark, Christian. They were transparent, actually. And why does Jack Nicholson wear sunglasses? Because he’s “famoose”! And if you were wondering why I was wearing all black, I’m just mourning the slow asphxyiation of freedom.
I’m currently working on a write-up of my own, but this one might take a couple of days…
(let me phyx that… i meant asphyxiation)
@ChristianX – Michael Weinstein wasn’t there because he never takes the risk of being in a situation that he does not control. Burts was there merely as an icon, a pawn of AHF (for “media availability”) — but it was a miscalculation on AHF’s part because his version of events was brutalized (and rightly so) by the attendees. I believe he did not speak up on advice of AHF/counsel.
My guess at why Anita Cannibal didn’t speak up more is that she was unable. She did not look well, she barely got out the two phrases that she uttered, and they were apropos of nothing. I felt sorry for her.
Lubben’s husband never comes to these things — the better questions are, where were all the “new girls” Lubben was supposed to bring? Where were the current performers — the constituency she claims for herself — in her posse? And why did she instead bring her daughter (the one from “a trick” — her word), dressed up like porn wash-outs Hiccups Hernandez and the pitiful Hangdog Jenni Case?
Yes, Julia, Nicki, Nina and Shy are tremendous assets — bless them for standing up for themselves, and so powerfully. As Chauntelle Thibbals commented, their “voices of real human experience could not be ignored.”
And again, it is and remains my pleasure to help. I honestly give Danny and the others from the prep meeting as much credit as myself, or more; these are motivated, inspired people. I’ve been contacted by several more performers in the wake of the meeting who want to work with Danny and I, and also with FSC, to spread more information and get an eve stronger turn-out next time. Christian, you and anyone else in the industry are welcome to contact us to get more involved and keep up-to-date on all this.
You folks have been stereotyped, demonized and pathologized by a cabal that was certain you wouldn’t stand up and prove them wrong. The momentum is clearly with he adult industry, and it is this cabal which must attempt to figure out a PR fix.
@Mark – Actually I did mention the woman from UCLA, Dr. Tavrow — but it was actually MYLANTA that she suggested. She is forevermore Paula “Mylanta” Tavrow. Julia Ann and I debated whether performers would prefer mint or cherry flavored — the jury is still out.
Twilight Zone indeed.
A man’s gotta sleep, Voltaire. Hotel stays are legitimate campaign expenses but where is the evidence that alleges that he used campaign funds to SPECIFICALLY hire escorts?
Hey y’all, I’m gonna stop posting here. In my personal life I’ve been a 23 year old virgin loser, with low self-esteem, who watches too much porn. The Colonel would piss on my grave if I died tomorrow.
Its time for me to shape up. I gotta take responsibility for my actions and live a life of honor. Take care everyone.
@origen
Whatever… Whether you think he used campaign funds or not, the whole point is that Elliott Spitzer sunk himself through buying prostitutes. If he wouldn’t have been partaking in the carnal pleasures, his political career would still be intact…
What’s Steele’s glasses choice have to do with anything? Derek Hay is a pimp and it should have been pointed out to the crowd. I’m glad some performers with their heads screwed on straight like Julia Ann and Alia Janine. While I think Erika the Icon is the one truly legit porn PR person it should be mentioned what she told Mia Isabella’s ex about keeping his gay/tranny performing a secret. Danny Wylde is a crossover. Derrick Burts is a piece of shit, he brought this shit upon himself and has put a lot of performers in jeopardy. A lot of the blame in all this goes back to Florida, where stuff in Dade County isnt hounded by the local government but in the hillbilly part you have dumbass attorneys making names for themselves prosecuting small frys. The gay business needs to test. Also, keep Margold and Mark Kernes away from these meetings, they are an embarrasment, they make it a freak show. Other than Burts, Margold, Kernes and Lubben the rest of the folks who showed up were valuable, even people like Hay, Shy Love, Wylde and even Trannyfucker. Origen, you’ve made some good points, dont disappear. Colonel, would love your take on this circus. Also, where was the great “Pirate” Hunter Alison from Pink Visual there or Papa Smurf or Thylman’s tool Orenstein or someone from RK, NA, Bangbus, Hustler, Stagliano’s Empire and so on.
Alison is too busy talking about how her company is cleaning up the pirates while ignoring the fact her whole industry is full of pirates and scam artists that rip off the public that pays for the porn they sell.
Cambria was there representing Vivid, and he is also counsel for LFP/Hustler. Wicked was represented by Brad Armstrong with Kaylani and Jessica Drake. Apparently the remaining Wicked performer contingent was working.
And yes, origen, please reconsider. I value your commentary.
@origen
Wtf?! I didnt see that post until now… You just need a little balance…that and some pussy…
@Larry Horse
Stagliano sent his General Manager, Christian Mann. And, why would Allison or anyone at Pink give a rip about Cal-OSHA? They’re in AZ.
Origen, come on man… You post good shit, even when I dont agree with you…
Surrogates arent good enough in this matter. Though I can understand Larry not being there.
Is Cal-Osha gonna do something about the other health issues in porn like Mark Davis’ weight, Ron Jeremy’s BO and Dick Nasty’s cholesterol.
I’d prefer to call them “Cal-Oshutup”! “Shut up” is what the commisioner yelled at the crowd a couple of times!