This is a post that appears on LADirectNews.com
Star Wars – The agent writes back – (Part one) of a continuing saga.
by admin on Mar. 4, 2010, under News
Recently this post was observed on one of the gossip columns related to the adult industry,
Jeff Mullen Says:
Great post Ryan,
I recently had a big agent turn down work for a girl in our upcoming mega-feature Not Charlie’s Angels XXX over a three hundred dollar difference in pay over a multiple day shooting schedule. Many agents don’t look at the publicity that special projects will provide but some do and understand there is real value in being a part of a marquee project. Our Charlie’s Angels spoof will be among the biggest movies of the year.
We’ve had a number of big time girls (and plenty of newer ones as well) ask to be put in this movie for much less then their normal rate because they know come awards time they will be nominated and quite possibly standing in the victory circle. That doesn’t mean much to some but it means a lot to others. I can only imagine what this one cute actress is going to say when she runs into me at a party and asks why I didn’t hire her for a part. Not sure if I will tell her the real reason or not that her agent turned it down. I am sure this agent never even contacted the actress to see if she wanted to do it but that is not my business.
********
It is about time that someone blew the whistle on this practice and that time is now and LADirect is the one to do it,
When this film producer started in the business he and his partner would meet girls at industry events and parties and solicit them with tales of their marketing and PR prowess (though not film making) all to the end of convincing the model (actress) to become excited about the possibility of appearing in their upcoming production, before delivering the sting in the tail that they would want her to appear for less than any other studio paid her and less than her normal rate – whatever that might be. And truly that meant whatever that might be. No matter what the model (actress) rate was, once known, the budget of these producers somehow would only have been set at 10% – 20% below that. And so the bartering began about why it would be to her benefit to see her name in press releases – so that she might get more work from other studios who were prepared to pay, her usual market value.
Over the course of time these producers film making skills improved, in fact improved a great deal, so much so, that the movies began to win awards, sales of their movies was good, budgets increased, expensive sets could be afforded, mainstream actors were brought in here and there., expensive wardrobe, costuming and make up could be afforded, yet never could the budget afford to pay an actress her usual scene rate. Somehow still, despite all the success enjoyed by this production company (and due credit given for that) – the budget for the actors and actresses that appeared in them, almost always fell below that of their usual market value. And still the “work with us because we put out more press releases than anyone else”, was touted as the reason that the actresses should always work for less than was usual.
Not to mention that the work required for these movies was far in excess of that typical, for adult productions. Where an average for a model to shoot a scene is five / six (5 / 6) hours total time on set – twelve to fifteen (12 / 15) hours each day was more likely for these movies. Granted they were / are film making – not shooting gonzo – but was any allowance made for this to compensate the actors / actresses as one might reasonably expect.? No sireee – again they were expected to work for less than every other studio would pay them for their typical five to six hours, but don’t forget – their name would appear in some extra press releases.
Now to the outside observer – or the porn consumer – one might reasonably conclude that the purchaser of such movies does so primarily because of the female stars contained in them, that is the primary reason for the purchase. And this, combined with a well made movie and in these cases often times well made parodies of popular TV shows, makes for a winning combination. So that same intelligent, outside observer might expect that the first people that the producers would be concerned about when producing their movie would be their cast. – but they would be wrong, as illustrated above.
And let us not forget that in adult – there are no back end deals, no percentage points, no sharing in the revenue, if the movie is a success. This a flat fee, one time, day rate – paid and gone. , So that flat fee that you worked for – with its 10% – 20% shaved off, is all you will get.
Oh and by the way – you might – just might, get a call from the producers – asking you to come on a few radio shows to help promote the movie, which will help the movie increase its sales, because you of course are one of the stars of the movie – and “ what’s that you say?” – will you be compensated for that promotional work because you have no back end deal, and if you can help to increase sales you don’t receive anything?. Errrr no, you will do that as part of your package – because – now listen, you haven’t been paying attention – we will put you in some extra press releases.
And wait – hold on, wait one second, – some intelligent young model just called and asked this question,
“Well what happens if one of those other studios finds out that I worked for less for this movie? Won’t they want me to work for less for them as well next time? Cos they don’t keep me on set for half as long.”
Well errmm – yes – that is indeed a very good question – what indeed does happen, cos you know these producers make movies that are distributed by some of those very same studios that are happy to pay actresses their normal going rates. Well anyway let’s skip over the answer to that question and “ oh by the way – did you get an invite to our party? Oh good cos we definitely want you to come to that, because there will be loads of press and all that and oh this is getting repetitive – lets move on,
Ok so lets recap,
Work for us for less because we will get you lots of press and if you gets lots of press then the other studios will hire you more, and they will pay you at your normal rate,
But don’t tell anyone you worked for less because if those other studios find out you worked for less then they will want to pay you less as well.
Hmmm – forgive the models and the agents for thinking not only is this a Catch 22, it’s not good business practice and not in the least bit advisable.
So the next time – you hear a producer tell you – I’d love to have you in my movie, and we’ve won all these awards, and we will make you Farrah Fawcett or Charlie Chaplin or Bill Cosby or whomever – tell them you’d love to work for them if they care to cast you – (but not for any less than you normally get paid.)
And if your agent tells them the same thing – then you know why – and you have a good agent.
And lastly – if your agent turns down a role for you because the deal isn’t right – he makes no money at all, – so there can be no accusation that agents (good ones at least) are only after money – a good agent work s for his clients best interest and that means turning down bad deals as much as it does securing good ones.
LA Direct Models. – working hard for its clients,
Although I felt differently at first when reading the previous entry), I have to say that Derek acquits himself well here. There is alot to be said about some movies/studios granting performers much needed publicity, Derek’s argument for NOT working below rate is logical & cogent. If the quality of product and budgets has increased, so too should the performers’ pay.
Jeff’s movies don’t get any performer enough publicity for them to consider working for one third their usual rate.
Jeff’s movies don’t make any money that is why he wants cut rates for the girls. Jeff is so terrified of porn girl’s rejection for his personal affection that he takes it out on them via low paid gigs. Jeff does not know how to please women and neither does Will Ryder.
jeff ryder : If you can’t afford to pay talent at least market value, maybe you shouldn’t be shooting.
As a member of XPT it pains me to take Derek Gay’s side in any argument, but he is actually correct and Jeff is acting like a emo bitch because an agent didn’t cave on price. Most businessmen would simply wander off and try their spiel on someone else, but Jeff calls attention to his own unreasonableness by publicizing an everyday five minute dispute over price.
Derek, correctly points out that unlike “Yet another Gonzo” movie, that Jeff’s parodies requires his talent to be on the set up to three times as many hours as is normal. For this reason, Jeff is already receiving a break in price by only being charged the going rate of $800.
But no Jeff whines, the porn market is spirling downwards so the $800 price is too high since supply exceeds demand. This might have merit if Jeff was shooting “Yet another gonzo movie”. Let’s say that there are 1,000 women in the porn industry at any given time. By reason of availability, and the ability to show up on the set on time, any one of 900 of these women could carry out this gonzo role.
Now let’s say we are casting for a particular parody movie that requires an actress to imitate Marsha Brady. She will need 1) a specific look to take this role. 2) An ability to psuedo act, so that she can carry out this role convincingly. This drops the number of porn performers who can carry out this role well from say 900 down to say, 10. This reverses the supply and demand dynamics that should lead to a cut in the fee that the porn performer receives.
Derek simply charges his standard $800 fee, in order to keep his price competitive, and yet Jeff still whines in public.
It’s like for many other things.It’s a matter of offer and demand.Nobody did put a gun to the head of those girls to accept to work at a lower price.If they were booked solid at their regular rate,they wouldn’t bother accepting such a deal.It’s their choice,sit on your ass or get paid less.If not,somebody else will take the place.If nobody is willing to do it at the lower price,he will have to pay more,simple.
Leslie is absolutely correct. And in response to Paperchase- Wow I would be thrilled if Derek only charged $800 for a boy/girl scene for his talent. It gets to a point where it is no longer economically sensible to pay a brand new girl $1000 or up to $1500 for a more experienced female depending on the girl.
We have cast the majority of our talent in Not Charlie’s Angels XXX at ‘normal’ rates. It is only a few girls that still wanted to be in the movie that we have added additional roles that didn’t exist in our original script yet many write that X-Play is being cheap but I guess they can think that if they wish even though we certainly don’t agree.
I only posted the blog below as a response to the the story you are reading now which was posted and also sent out to a huge talent database before I wrote that post below. Also who creates what is referred to as ‘market value’? Of course these girls deserve to make as much money as possible for each scene but producers ultimately have the responsibility to control what they pay for everything from studio rental, to props, to crew, to transportation, to editing, to DVD authoring, insurance, permits, lighting, catering and everything else associated in a budget.
Somebody claimed that I was crying poverty by wanting to pay less than the artificial ‘market value’ for talent but that truly isn’t the truth. We pass on every girl that is over $1000 unless they are a marquee star period or are a must-have for a particular role. I also want to say that I personally admire Derek for the way he handles his business as I have known him for 9 years but we both run businesses that often disagree over price. When we agree on things the experience of working together is great and I know the girls will show up on time. When we decide we cannot meet a price requirement, we go elsewhere to make a purchase. We determine our own market value and I hardly think paying somebody hundreds of dollars a day is ripping them off especially not in this economy or in this day of declining sales but the beauty of this system is that everybody can say no thanks or sure I’d love to do the movie.
BTW: the people that write horrible things on this blog are only creating fantastic entertainment value for the readers which I guess is also part of our great American system of freedom but nothing shocks me. I guess what does surprise me a little bit are other directors that are ripping on me for everything from my beard to the fact that I love women. Newsflash: Yes I certainly do love women and I am a single guy and enjoy every day and once in a while they actually enjoy being with me lol. Some might say the girls only like you because you are the AVN director of the year but I say and your point is? I know that is hard for some of the haters to believe but life is too short and we work too hard to worry about those that aren’t enjoying their life as much as they perhaps should be.
Will, I think your goatee is cute and I would fuck you for no charge. You can buy me donuts first if you want to.
So Will or Jeff, or whatever you are calling yourself these days.
Derek sends over some women in response to your casting call. You know he is their agent and what their normal rate is. Derek says that you try to convince them to lower their price and then call him up claiming that you have gained their acceptance for this lower price. You then whine because he does not agree with your attempt to cut him out of the price negotiation, which is one of the purposes of having an agent in the first place.
Lets suppose I am also a sleezy producer, and I learn that you managed to get a $500 rate for a B/G on an LA Direct Model (this is what Derek is saying you tried to obtain for one model) Assuming I am also trying to save costs, why wouldn’t I and every other producer attempt the same routine that you pulled on Derek’s talent if he let you get away with such a gambit?
And you obviously don’t understand 1) Why Derek is unhappy with you, (because you went around his back)or 2) why such a manuver would destroy his ability to obtain a standard wage for his models.
But instead you complain about Derek charging too much when if you don’t like his prices you can go talk to any one of a dozen other agents.
At the end of the day, it doesn’t matter how many “awards” a porn flick “earns”. (Even outsiders like myself know that such voting is rigged) What matters to talent is the price they can command per scene.
Dude stop trying to pretend that you are doing the talent a favor when that money is just lining your pocket. 🙂
Now that explains why I have been seeing alot of the really good looking and good performing male talent out here on the East Coast performing for higher paying producers than in LA and the west coast. Keep sending us more of your talent from LA and keep cutting your rates!! It helps us out here in Miami and New York!! and again, Thanks!!
Hey, WTF U talking about, PDS? I’m from NY, and despite the high cost of living there, the “industry” in NY is minimal, at best, the cost of testing is higher, and the rates aren’t even close to LA.
(Cindi, could you kindly explain to me what I’ve supposedly done for you to put me on “moderator approval” status?)
Jeremy; thanks for bring that to my attention! Yes some shoots are cheap ,but some are very good pay rates for Male talent who can get they’re cocks hard and can perform up to 1.5 to 2 hours. We use AIM out here and you still paying $130 too?? so are we . Its all about my brotha who you work for. Now Will/Jeff and David are known for being cheap and thats going to be the realm of it in LA. Cheap talent!! No more over paid, over hyped talent. Now Jerimy you want to make $ 2500 for a shoot?
$2,500 for a shoot in NY? What’s that, a snuf film payed after it’s completion?
Nahh Jerimy! It will be with this really nice looking asian girl name Lucky Starr and she will wear a 12″inch strap-on and you will just have to bend over LA style and take it anally for one hour. And it will be very messy Jerimy. But the director was also thinking about casting Sophia Mounds for the part. Now where else can male talent in LA make that kind of money??
That’s “Jeremy”, retard. Learn to spell. Maybe Sophia can give you a spelling lesson.
I remember you, after I said something on LIB to piss you off (I think it was commenting on the silliness of naming yourself “dudestud”) you, in retaliation, claimed here on LIB the lie that you were in Jim South’s office and Jim supposedly told you I couldn’t get my dick up because one of the photos he had of me on file was with a flaccid dick. You’re really a funny guy. A man with many morals, too, just like a few others in porn. You seem to have an obsession with gays in LA, too. Are you a closet homo?
No Germ man I am not I am a director/Producer in the industry that can have u working for Will for the rest of your like for $100 a shoot and a LA county food stamp card. Yes I can Gerimy!! U suck as a performer and why you are at it being the LA homo you are why don’t you go do gay videos now!! or have you already done that under another stagename? Roy Ashborn son? You would look good with a strapon up that anal shoot!!!
Well, lowlife, you don’t deny you made up the lie that Jim South told you I can’t perform.
Why does porn attract so many angry retards?
If you’re a “director/Producer” why do you call yourself “Pornodudestud”? If you’re a director/producer who wants to pretend he’s a pornstar why not just call yourself “Pornostud”? The word “stud” already implies that you are male, or a “dude”.
How can you have Will have me work for $100 a shoot and a LA county food stamp card for the rest of my “like” (life)? You must be a real power-player in the industry.
If I suck (I don’t suck. You’d certainly like to see that, though) as a performer, and Will Ryder is a top selling director, how could I have worked for him some 20 boy/girl scenes and counting?
No, you’re not funny. But I don’t expect you to understand my sarcasm.
What’s my gay stage name if I’ve supposedly done gay videos? Who’s Roy Ashborn?
You ARE gay, but too dumb to realize it. You keep talking how much you hate homos yet first imagine, and then tell me how good I’d look getting fucked with a strap-on.
Getting fucked-with a strap-on isn’t my thing, btw, nor is it gay. Tom Byron did that on video for years but no one ever said he was gay.
Yeah I think that shoot will work for you Jeremy steele and Sophia Mounds pounding a 12 inch strap-on up your ass! Now is $2500 enough? I know you are having really rough over there in California and with nothing else to do but be on here all day Germy it will give you something to do! Now I know you like putting things up you ass!! No I’m not gay, I’m happily married and have 5 kids and invested in several adult companies and yes I do perform in some videos and direct and produce. Roy Ashbourn is that caliPhonia Senator who just came out of the Closet from buggersfield. See all you are in the closet! Germy, should I book you through Jim south or should you take the booking fee ?? This is going to be good! Maybe I’ll hire the Colonel as the cameraman for this one. now would you want Lucky or Sophia? it’s a 12 inch strapon! so is that a california thing?? never heard of Tom doing that? Can we look that up?? yes u would look good getting fucked!! Make me some money baby!!! Jerimy steele getting fucked for the money$$$$$ come on guys maybe well have a audience!! whooaaaaaaaaa
Pornodudestud Says:
“Nahh Jerimy! It will be with this really nice looking asian girl name Lucky Starr and she will wear a 12″inch strap-on and you will just have to bend over LA style and take it anally for one hour.”
Steele, why is this clown talking about the girl you took to the XBiz Awards…
Steele “Getting fucked-with a strap-on isn’t my thing, btw, nor is it gay. Tom Byron did that on video for years but no one ever said he was gay.”
Well, not to his face or on an internet porn gossip message board. Despite the respect I have for Byron and his long career…taking a strap-on is very gay.
LIB’s a real retard romper room.
Isn’t it curious Pornodude-to-the-second-power mentioned your Xbiz companion. Perhaps you now officially have your first male stalker! lol
Unfortunately, most of my stalkers have been male, Sammy.
I just did an anagram for pornodudestud and came up with:
Duded Porn Oust
Doped Dour Nuts
Doped Turd On Us
Dude Droop Nuts
Odd Nude Stupor
Odd Sound Erupt
Prude Snoot Dud
Dud Pounds Rote
Sudden Dropout
Too Bad!! mine are old ladies that seen my vidoes and middle age house wives. And old queer dudes that are into porn with straight guys. Man I can’t wait until I retire and move to another country!
Hey, where did dudedroopnuts, i mean suddendropout go?
Looks like he suddenly dropped out.